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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: cnyndwllr who wrote (153691)	12/8/2004 4:10:23 PM
From: michael97123	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

American public will not hold up much longer and it will be republicans not democrats in congress who will show the first crack. Biden, McCain, Lugar running around calling for escalalation is not being well received and if bush/rummy continue with all is well line, too far after the iraqi election they will get hammered and there goes bush domestic legacy along with the fp legacy down the tubes. Bush has to know what happened to LBJ and does not want a McCarthy/RFK challenge within his party setting things off. Iraq may very well turn out to have been stupid policy but after the election he can always say we got rid of facist saddam, freed the kurds and shiaa and held the first democratic elections at least in shia/kurd areas. So 2/3 of the country will be free so as Meatloaf said 2 outta 3 aint bad. On to Social Security, Tax reform and the like while bernie kerrick and porter goss take on the bad guys. mike

To: cnyndwllr who wrote (153691)	12/8/2004 4:41:38 PM
From: neolib	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

I think we'll leave only when the American public gets tired of the deception, and that will be when more of us begin to FEEL the losses of health, life and loved ones that is occurring in Iraq. Ed I think we will leave when Bush deems it in his interest to leave. What I don't know is which of the two will come first. Bush has made stubbornness a virtue. That is tough to change. The problem for Bush is that failure in Iraq seriously jeopardizes the next 4 years of his foreign and domestic programs. I agree with you and Mike that we aught to exit since I don't think the grand goals are achievable. Where Mike and I differ, is Mike seems to think Bush will not be handicapped by a "limited" failure of civil war in Iraq. No WMD, no democratic Iraq, people dying every day on the evening news, the worlds premier terror breeding ground,and potential incursions from Turkey and Iran if things destabilize too far will be the legacy. The Shia and Kurds will keep dying as well. This is failure, anyway you cut it. IMHO, it is the type of failure that Bush cannot tolerate. So he is going to doggedly keep plugging away with the military solution. I don't think that will work, but WDIK? Lebanon and the Pals would indicate these things can go on violently for decades, so I doubt peace and tranquility are going to descend come the end of January. Do you think that Bush can sidestep "failure" in Iraq? That is the key issue controlling the end game.