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Politics : For the Sake of Clarity and Meaning -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Kevin Rose who wrote (333)	3/9/2005 6:27:34 AM
From: one_less	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 777

"...Should the left stop with the 'but I support the troops?' ps not sure if this is an appropriate topic here, but it just seems more civil here. Even I'm on better behavior... :) Any topic is appropriate here, it is the manner of dealing with topics that we are exploring as well as ideas in general. I think you get the reason why I posed this question. There is a 'position' on the war, your feelings about people employed by the military, and your willingness to contribute to the person vs the military. Sometimes the person, his position, and what he needs to be supported are all in line with his reasons for enlisting, which may have been to stand up as a patriot and support what the military is doing. Its not a draft army like VietNam, it is all volunteer, so why that would even be thought of as the exception, I don't know. I also get that the motivation for entering the military is usually a complication of factors. It is possible to separate it all out as kholt did. She said that, support the troops but not the war, means to act as a nanny to the troops by trying to get them out of something that they have made an adult commitment to. ... or something along those lines. The protesters of the Vietnam War believed that by adamantly and in some cases violently protesting the war, they would end up in the long term saving both American and Vietnamese lives. ... Btw: I was in grammar/junior high at the time, so I can't say what the protesters were thinking I was one of the protesters, so I can speak for many of them. We were extremely supportive of the VietNam Veterans Against the War types ... They were heros to us. When there was a flag waving Marine attempting to speak patriotically about his commitments, we boooo'd, jeered, and snickered, and worse at him. Soldiers who were not anti-war were treated with disdain in general. It was a very different time than now for a lot of reasons. So, if people want to think of Iraq as being another VietNam then I get the slogan that way. If they are thinking Iraq is a unique situation, I think of the slogan in other ways. When I question it and people become hostile, that takes it to a whole new level of understanding. Its a good question to look at from all sides. It is a stupid question to use as a line in the sand for left/right dog packs.

To: Kevin Rose who wrote (333)	3/9/2005 8:26:55 AM
From: Lane3	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 777

is "But I support the troops" code for "I don't want to be labeled as unpatriotic?" At the top of this discussion, I postulated that "I support the troops" is a defensive posture in the face of those war supporters who conflate supporting the war and supporting the troops labeling unpatriotic those who object to the war. I wouldn't call it code since there would be no reason to claim "I support the troops" other than in defense. "Code" is a language trick used to bind the cognoscenti and fool the rest. Karen

To: Kevin Rose who wrote (333)	3/10/2005 2:15:59 PM
From: one_less	Respond to of 777

"The protesters of the Vietnam War believed that by adamantly and in some cases violently protesting the war,..." In 1969-70, when I asked soldiers who the bad guys were and how they knew, I got murk and mire answers. When they started protesting, I was forced to stand up for them. Standing Up, is not dog piling for the sake of political loyalty. In fact, most often it is a sacrifice that is disloyal to your alliances and even kin. At the time, I was an embarrassment to my father and unlces (who I idolized) who were standing on strong values developed in WWII. Message 21118505 Stand Up