Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Strategies & Market Trends : Booms, Busts, and Recoveries -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: RealMuLan who wrote (62066)	4/16/2005 12:38:31 PM
From: Ilaine	Respond to of 74559

No, this is what we mean by human rights abuses in China: I. TRANSFORMATION AND THE NATIONALIST STRUGGLE, 1900 TO SEPTEMBER 1949 2. 105,000 Victims: Dynastic and Republican China 3. 632,000 Victims: Warlord China 4. 2,724,000 Victims: The Nationalist Period 5. 10,216,000 Victims: The Sino-Japanese War 6. 3,949,000 Victims: Japanese Mass Murder in China 7. 4,968,000 Victims: The Civil War II. THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA 8. The People's Republic of China: Overview 9. 8,427,000 Victims: The Totalization Period 10.7,474,000 Victims: Collectivization and "The Great Leap Forward" 11. 10,729,000 Victims: The Great Famine and Retrenchment Period 12. 7,731,000 Victims: The "Cultural Revolution" 13. 874,000 Victims: Liberalization hawaii.edu Nobody is as good at killing as totalitarians. Admittedly, it's not nice to put panties on the heads of grown men, or make them kneel for hours, but we didn't kill them, nor even break any bones or cause any long term damage. But to compare that to killing millions of people, as your party has done, is just stupid.

To: RealMuLan who wrote (62066)	4/16/2005 12:41:59 PM
From: Ilaine	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 74559

1.2M Tibetans killed by Chinese since 1950. freetibet.org

To: RealMuLan who wrote (62066)	4/16/2005 1:44:52 PM
From: BubbaFred	Respond to of 74559

"[Damn China does, damn China doesn't. If Chinese gov. had controlled demonstrators, then the US would say they cracked the democracy. It is such a joke!]--" Message 21230280 Yep, every event can be twisted to any meaning and perception. Most people are to blind and unaware (too shallow and dumb) of the underlying currents.

To: RealMuLan who wrote (62066)	4/16/2005 5:10:01 PM
From: shades	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 74559

"When the West talked about the human right violation in China, they singled out those happened due to the dif. political system. They ignore those work injuries happened due to those (imported from the West) capitalist greed and the capitalist system. And those human right violation has never seen when China did have a "communist" system. They only appear since China adopts the capitalist system!" So you blame the abuses of poor slant eye girls getting acid poured on them by evil multinational mostly western corporate heads who in the pursuit of greed came to your country and enslaved little girls - ok I follow so far - that was a point I was trying to make. They pushed for the peg 15 years ago - pushed for offshoring - pushed for working your people like robots to be tossed aside when they wear out - the western multinational PIG MEN did this right? "And comparing to the couple of political prisoners, there are much more poor migrant workers broke their arms/legs or even lose their lives in the JV sweatshops due to the negligent and greed of the capitalists coming from overseas." Ok you restate it again, MORE slant eye girl die and break bones because of western pig man and his capitalistic ways "No, the West will not and cannot use its "muscle" to force China doing anything, " Now here is where you contradict yourself and where I want to show you how - I already say western pig man bring his greed and enslave your little slant eye girl but bring no human rights - you agree - back in the day western pig man could have been nice guy - say NOPE - not gonna start a factory and then pour acid on little slant eye girl if she dont work hard - instead he bribe factory supervisor, local gubbment and everyone else in the chain to pour acid on little slant eye girl if she don't work hard - spreading the cancer of his greed - so yes my dear YIWU - west had GREAT INFLUENCE on the future that is here today and could have made it better or made it worse - do not blind yourself to the past like you say the japanese do - pig man could have come in and brought up standards for workers and human rights - he did not - why you want to say he had no muscle or affect I do not understand - blind pride that western muscle couldn't come in and fundamentally change your system maybe? blind hate that he is the sole reason for little slant eye girl dying in chinese factory? "since its happening is due to China starts to adopt the Western system," Why did china adopt it? Because western pig man come in and corrupt everyone that was corruptable to work little slant eye girl to death - you already admit before western pig man that was not happening in the factories - so don't forget who had the POWER and who used it to make your officials and workers succumb to greed - WEST PIG MAN " and that is what the West has been trying to do in China for so long." Not for so long that I can see, from the history I read, west pig man multinational REALLY started pushing for offshoring and currency peg about 15-20 years ago and boy was he successful - too successful and now things are out of control "What the West cares about is more market for their surplus, they do not care about the plight of the Chinese workers working in those sweatshops set up by the West themselves." OK here you admit again it was WEST pig man and his BIG MUSCLE that kill little slant eye girl and get acid poured on her for not working hard enough - so which is it - does west have muscle and make bad shit happen when he could have made good shit happen - or did west have NO MUSCLE - you can't have it both ways - he could have come in with greed and selfishness or make the work better for all and demand human rights "BTW, talked about the so-called "muscle" of the West, I don't think the West has any "muscle"." Now you are contradicting yourself again - first you say it was WEST and multinational pig man that kill people in sweatshops - now you saying he was a weak nothing and it was your own stupidity that kill your people in the sweatshop - either the west had GREAT influence and exerted muscle and made the deaths happen or he didn't - take your pick and stick with your conclusion - this flip flopping making me hungry for pancake " What happened in Iraq and in Quant. Bay is worse than any so-called human right violation happened in China." Now you contradict yourself again - many more people dying in sweatshop because of western pig man and his economic muscle to enslave your slant eye little girls than western military man and his bombs to blow up mud people - isn't that what you said - more dying from western pig man and his western greed and sweatshops "Now here is ONE MORE example of hypocrisy of the US." Yiwu, you can't blame all those deaths on western economic muscle - and then say we had no muscle - you have to stop contradicting yourself - like I said before - we could have brought workers rights when we brought our economy and factories and technology to you all those years ago - we did not - and now little slant eye girl get acid poured on her and die to show example to other workers what happen when you don't work fast. Bush already saying he not like china talking bad about taiwan attack, not like china not accepting catholicism - this man talks to god and he's his emmissary on the planet to do the work of god, the US congress get VERY mad when they find out china building up its NAVY and when that tsunami hit - chinese navy in WARGAMES with russia instead of giving aid - while US sent many ships - ships were needed to help peoples lives - China could have help. I can assure you that if the religious right tell Bush or god tell bush that he need to protect taiwan to spread democracy and freedom - no matter the stupidity to global concerns - bush will end the world with nukular weapons before he fail his lord god - have no doubt about that - the man is gonna be the lords tool. Bush do a lot of drinking and cocaine in his younger days - he probably really does have visions with God - not smart to push limits of crazy drug head - what confucious say? On top of it all, Bush an OIL man, and he want oil cheap - and if china makes prices keep go up from thier demand, bush just itchin to use Taiwan as a reason to go do some fightin - he is crazy cowboy like that - he went and killed saddams sons over an error - now just imagine if he think he is on a holy mission from god concerning taiwan? I fear bad things in the future if cooler heads do not prevail. But as the haiku master said - insects floating on a leaf down the river singing - don't sweat it - tis just a world of dew.

To: RealMuLan who wrote (62066)	4/17/2005 12:58:32 PM
From: BubbaFred	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 74559

Here are some tidbits of perspectives from Americans living in China today. This should expose many of the hocus pocus bogus experts that exist in SI. ----------------------------------------- "It is the arrogance of the modern Japanese which glosses over the events of the 1930's and 1940's which is so appalling. The Chinese have still millions of citizens alive who were brutalized by the Japanese and the Japanese refuse to acknowledge such. The Chinese are building a modern, effecient military, and Japan would be wise to ask forgiveness for their barbaric behavior of the past. The fallable history books are written by man, whereas memories of actual events linger with an entire generation." ------------------------------- "I have been reading with much interest the stories of the protests and rampage the Chinese have demonstrated towards the Japanese. On many occasions in China I have been asked by Chinese people what is my opinion of the Japanese. I wisely say I have a low opinion of Japanese, and not only to apease my sloicitor. For anyone considering on formulating an informed opinion, one must only read the history or speak to some of the WWII generation in northern China. Vist area 731 in Harbin China or read Iris Chang's book, "The rape of Nanking". My wife's grandmother lived in Manchuria through the Japanese occupation in the 1930's and to this day she has not the courage to speak of the atrocities. I have seen first hand the hatred the Chinese have for the Japanese. I think the Chinese have opened pandoras box and the rampage will continue." -------------------------------------- "Today was an interesting day in Hangzhou. First they had a protest against Japan. Had about 3,000+ protesters. There was a large police presence today. Lots of cars and vans filled with police. We went to the Hangzhou Tea Expo. We were walking around looking and tasting the different kinds of tea when I noticed the television camera. They started filming me tasting tea and looking at the different packages. Then the newspaper photographer joined in. Following us from booth to booth. We sat down at one booth and the photographer was posing different kinds of tea in front of me and had me hold my glass so that he could see the tea. Someone tried to sit at the table and he had them get away because they were blocking his pictures. After about an hour of visiting and pictures, the television camera came back and they wanted to interview me about the tea. I must have looked like a tea expert, or maybe it was because I am caucasian..." ------------------------------------ "Plain and simple, the Japanese as a nation and as a people are arrongant. I have a friend who works at the palace of Prince Abdullah in Saudi Arabia. This man is a PHD and world traveler. He has told me the Japanese come to the palace as invited guests of Price Abdullah and perform such rude and arrogant acts that the Saudis wish to bury them on the spot. The issue at stake with the protests in Beijing, Shanghai, etc. is deeper than just the seat on the security council. It is the nation of China, the individual Chinese whose grandmother was raped by a Japanese soldier or whose great uncle was tortured, or used as a human guinea pig for germ warfare experiments. It is proud Chinese finally having the same fortitude the blacks had in America in the 60's and say we deserve respect and we deserve be be acknowledged. Saving face is everything to a Chinese, and after decades of denial I think the Japanese must admit past sins, which they seem too arrogant to admit."

To: RealMuLan who wrote (62066)	4/18/2005 10:51:39 AM
From: BubbaFred	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 74559

Another email from an acquaintance (American Caucasian) who has ties with China, and been there a few times. "My Wife and I talked about this a lot last night and we think that the Japanese are dead wrong on this. Here is why: The leader of Japan still complains (and rightfully so) about the atomic bombs used in 1945. He also still complains (and rightfully so) about the northern island being captured by the Russians in 1944. However, he seems to forget about the same terrible actions that his own troops committed (the occupation and brutal massacres during the same period of time against Chinese, Koreans, and others). He also seems to forget that his still not returning of money stolen to China, causes there to be more poverty, today, and greater deaths today. Finally, the average Chinese person I speak with and have spoken with knows about Tiananmen. Whereas the average Japanese does NOT know about Nanjing, nor does the average Japanese know about the fact that today, they have more weapons of mass destruction than any other country in the world, in clear violation of the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty, nor about any of the issues of them still killing innocent people in China and Korea due to the unexploded chemical weapons that their government has still refused to clean up (although it agreed to do so as a condition of ending WWII). (I also do not know how many Americans know about our own massacres in Vietnam, in Kent Ohio, in the Nevada Desert, etc.)."