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Politics : The Citizens Manifesto -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: neolib who wrote (3)	6/11/2005 1:45:47 PM
From: Road Walker	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 492

Neolib, I hope you don't mind, but your post covered a lot of territory, so I'll comment on a few points in separate posts. re: The term Citizen smacks a little of Comrade to me, and would more so to people on the right. Manifesto is also a bit contaminated in that regard. The two together, unavoidably so. Not that I have any brilliant names, but a marketing survey might be in order. CJ and I discussed the "Pragmatist Party" (the Prags!?) and also the "American Pragmatist Party". I think a survey is a good idea... anyone have a suggestion? Two keys elements are middle class and pragmatic (rather than ideological) decisions. I'm not sure how to tie those two into one or two words. John

To: neolib who wrote (3)	6/11/2005 1:56:12 PM
From: Road Walker	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 492

re: Does the order reflect an intended ranking? ... I'd be inclined to place 2) in the top slot... No, and I agree. Since the assumption is that what benefits the middle class is good for the country... then what's good for the middle class is almost by definition pragmatic. John

To: neolib who wrote (3)	6/11/2005 2:17:46 PM
From: Road Walker	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 492

re: Balanced Budget: My inclinations are towards a balanced budget, but Keynes had some useful ideas. Deficit spending now and then provides additional economic control which is a good thing. The problem is in restricting the use of that tempting lever. The final chapter in economics has not be written, and the function of deficit spending is not clearly mapped yet. The party needs to adopt the best economic theory available. Maybe the balance budget amendment allows a small percentage deficit, with a time limit? I understand where you are coming from. As a for instance, if a municipality wants to build a school, do they have to pay for it all in that year with that years taxes? Do they have to tax for several years and build a surplus to pay for it? Or can they float municipal bonds? Some how some way, it's very important to get fiscal discipline. And I think it's a cornerstone issue for a new party. The Dem/Rep coalition has failed us miserably in this area, and it's an important issue to the public, according to the polls. John

To: neolib who wrote (3)	6/11/2005 2:25:38 PM
From: Road Walker	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 492

re: Employee Compensation: Living wage & health care. Minimum wages should be upped with an eye on productivity. Regarding health care, we must work on cost effective health care. That could be a thread on its own! How do you legislate to encourage the flattening of the compensation curve? Hell, I don't have a clue, but I don;t think it's as simple as just the minimum wage. I would like to hear ideas on that one. On health care, a very well respected (non-partisan) expert recently came out with a study that said universal health care would actually lower costs and save money in the aggregate. I'll see if I can find it and post it. John

To: neolib who wrote (3)	6/11/2005 2:30:45 PM
From: Road Walker	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 492

re: I'd be in jail under your proposal. If you have ever tried to employ farm labor you would understand. I collect the required info, which often I find out after the fact is bogus. And calling it in to verify is not bullet proof either. Around here, even white teenagers will sell their SS numbers to illegals, which they'll regret a few years later, but what the heck, teens will be brainless at times. What if you did an amnesty program, and then went after anyone that employed illegals? A two step program. Somehow we have to reduce the competition at the low end of the wage scale. And at least you would be in the same situation as your competition. John

To: neolib who wrote (3)	6/11/2005 2:31:52 PM
From: Road Walker	Respond to of 492

re: Lastly I would add a six'th plank to the party. We seek solutions. Steer the Federal government away from a legal/enforcement view to one of identifying problems, and actively enabling solutions. I agree. John

To: neolib who wrote (3)	6/11/2005 2:39:45 PM
From: combjelly	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 492

There has been an ongoing wrestling match with respect to the name. That is definitely an open issue. As far as the name of the board, that was deliberate. The idea is to challenge and shake the concept of ideology. That particular name is only for this group. If someone can't get beyond that name to get involved in the discussion, it is probably for the best. My original name for the party was Neopopulist, because the present situation is very reminiscent of the situation which led to the first Populist Party. But that is probably tainted because of its connections with the early labor movement. Your views on illegals are one of the reasons why this board exists. You make good points, but we need working solutions. I personally have a problem with controlling illegals, the ones I have met work hard and deserve a break. But we have our own unskilled that need to be helped. We need a solution to this. Solving problems with real solutions instead of fake ones is what this effort is all about. Maybe that needs to be explicitly spelled out.