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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Tenchusatsu who wrote (278324)	3/5/2006 12:33:08 AM
From: AK2004	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 1571806

Ten re: They feel it is their duty to spread a political and cultural revolution across the entire world, not just in the Middle East, but all the way to Los Angeles as well you're unlikely to convince Amy that Israel is not the problem. Even though that everyone is very well familiar with: From the Halls of Montezuma, To the Shores of Tripoli; We fight our country's battles In the air, on land, and sea; from hymn of marines. Those words about the US war with Tripoli 1801-1805. There was no Israel and yet ...... The history that predates the war is a good lesson why appeasement does not work. en.wikipedia.org usmcpress.com -AK

To: Tenchusatsu who wrote (278324)	3/5/2006 10:48:46 AM
From: Taro	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1571806

I believe a case could be made that if we had left Hitler on his own and stayed out of Europa we could have lived in peace as well with the Nazis leaving us alone. Actually that is pretty much what that book "Vaterland" by Harris (I believe, but not our Steve;) was about. We may have ended up in a cold war with Nazi Europe, however. Taro

To: Tenchusatsu who wrote (278324)	3/5/2006 7:56:07 PM
From: tejek	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1571806

However, I subscribe to a different argument, one which will no doubt make me a "neocon" in the eyes of many. It is my belief that Osama and those who follow him follow a totalitarian ideology that is very similar to Nazism. They feel it is their duty to spread a political and cultural revolution across the entire world, not just in the Middle East, but all the way to Los Angeles as well. This web page gives a great background as to what Islamic fundamentalists (e.g. Wahhabism) believe in: libforall.org; This is disturbing. The title of the website is called Promoting the Culture of Liberty and Tolerance Worldwide, and yet, the website is doing anything but that. Plus, its intentionally misleading. The current Islamic movement is nothing knew. Islamic theocracy has always had some following in the ME....for hundred of years. However, the majority over and over again have come down against it. That's why a significant number of Muslim countries are not theocracies. As for totalitarianism, that's always been common. For many different reasons, Muslims have not gone the route of democracy.....at least not yet. However, its not them who are trying to spread their way of life to us, but the US trying to spread its way of life to them. You need to learn the history of Islam. You views have been badly colored by the crazies of the world. Fundamentalist Muslims are much the same as fundamentalist Christians. And BTW never once in all the interviews I have read about OBL has he said once he wants to rule the world. Thus to them, a Western withdrawal from the Middle East would only be regarded as a retreat and an opportunity to expand their power base. That's not seeking common ground, nor is it even giving an inch. That's giving a mile to people who pretty much want to see us dead. And I'd rather not wait until that point just to say, "I told you so." I don't understand why you are so susceptible to this garbage. Let me leave you with this. Mavis Leno, the wife of Jay Leno, was a crusader of women's rights in Afghanistan long before 9/11. Do you think she should get out of the Middle East just because you think Osama wants us out? Only if the Afghans want her out even if it flies in the face of Western beliefs. Why can't you be tolerant of the POV of other cultures? ted

To: Tenchusatsu who wrote (278324)	3/6/2006 1:14:40 AM
From: Amy J	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 1571806

Tenchusatsu, RE: "I've heard that argument before, that if we just get out of the Middle East, Osama will leave us alone" He certainly has left alone every country that hasn't deployed troops into the ME. RE: "And that's entirely possible if we could just drive less" I think you meant to say that if we were pragmatic and spent $300B on alternative energy uses/sources rather than $400B/year on a so-called "pre-emptive" war. RE: "abandon Israel" What does the removal of USA military troops have to do with abandoning Israel? The military is useless in preventing bin Laden's brand of attack. CIA agents would be more useful. In fact, an Israeli defense person essentially said the US military might have made things worse by creating a civil war in Iraq that could lead to a worse leader than Saddam. RE: "However, I subscribe to a different argument...They feel it is their duty to spread a political and cultural revolution across the entire world, not just in the Middle East" You need to get more exposure to international countries and live in a foreign country and experience what THEY experience when we invade THEIR culture with our violent movies, mcdonald's, pornography, and other capitalistic illnesses. You also are hypocritical if you think it's perfectly okay to spread (impose) evangelistic Christianity onto others but not Islam. It's also inappropriate to think the USA can be imperialistic and assume it can impose capitalism throughout the world. We can ASK if a country wants to engage in trade, conduct capitalism, but we should never force this nor impose our way onto others. RE: "a Western withdrawal from the Middle East would only be regarded as a retreat and an opportunity to expand their power base" No, it would be an opportunity for the USA to gain respect in the world and thus be an effective counter balance to any weird regime that tries to get imperialistic and imposing onto other countries. But if we impose onto others, we lose all respect. It's more effective to lead by example, than by force. RE: "I'd rather not wait until that point just to say, "I told you so." No, you'd rather lose all foreign respect, become powerless in the process, and bankrupt this country before crying "uncle." I'd rather be proactive by leading by example, and be strategic and effective. RE: "Do you think she should get out of the Middle East just because you think Osama wants us out?" Women in Iraq had substantially more rights than they do now. Regards, Amy J