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Politics : Don't Blame Me, I Voted For Kerry -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Dan B. who wrote (75040)	4/3/2006 3:06:30 AM
From: Orcastraiter	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 81568

Your plan amounts to pacifism in the face of direct threat, and nuclear threat at that. I see...in order to prevent a nuclear holocaust, we need to prosecute one. Pre-emptive nuclear war is what you're advocating here. No wonder Iran wants the big stick too. They're tired of taking the big stick up the ass. Orca

To: Dan B. who wrote (75040)	4/3/2006 3:38:52 AM
From: Cogito	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 81568

>>You do miss the point that blaming us for threatening our might to insist on verification in Iran when Iran has repeatedly stepped out on its own to attack us, is a very backwards way of thinking.<< Dan - You apparently miss the point that whether you or I consider someone else's thinking to be backwards most likely makes no difference to that person. Iran's view is undoubtedly that they have the right to do what we also do, which is to produce nuclear power for energy, and nuclear weapons in the name of "security". If you can't put yourself in your enemy's place, and try to see the situation from his point of view, you have no hope of understanding your enemy. If you do not understand your enemy, your chances of defeating him are reduced significantly. >>striking "first" is defense when the enemy avowedly plots to strike against us, while we would otherwise most certainly be willing to let them live in "peace<< Here's an interesting thing to try. Try to find any report of one time that Saddam ever threatened to attack the United States first. Sure, he made many statements indicating that his armies would crush us if we attacked Iraq, but I don't believe he ever threatened to attack us first. At least, I am not aware of any instance in which he did. - Allen

To: Dan B. who wrote (75040)	4/3/2006 3:46:58 AM
From: Cogito	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 81568

>>Your plan amounts to pacifism in the face of direct threat, and nuclear threat at that.<< Dan - Really? What plan? I didn't suggest a plan that would allow Iran to create nuclear weapons. I suggested that it would be wrong to go to war to prevent them from possibly attacking us with weapons they don't yet have. Again, there are more than two options for dealing with an external threat. It's not a question of choosing either a) all out war, or b) doing nothing. Even Bush apparently sees more options this time. You'll notice that he hasn't once suggested that Iran's leaders need to be taken out by force. He hasn't started a huge PR campaign to demonize them, even. So apparently, he's going to go a different route this time than he did with Iraq. Why? Maybe he has learned something from Iraq. Or maybe it's just that we really don't have the manpower to open up a new front in this war. - Allen

To: Dan B. who wrote (75040)	4/3/2006 11:48:59 AM
From: Skywatcher	Respond to of 81568

enjoy the reality of your leader and his wonderful minions Jack's House By HART SEELY These are the men That fleeced the tribes That paid the money That made the bribes That purchased the Congress that Jack built. This is the Duke That sailed the yacht That raised the eyebrows And got him caught, Who helped Mitch Wade, Who bought Duke's land And kicked in 700 grand; Which raised Duke's taxes, And gave Duke pain; So Wade paid the tab On Duke's capital gain. Bigger than Abscam: Randy "Duke" Cunningham! Top gun in the Congress that Jack built. This is Bob Ney, Who knew the fine print That could pass a casino And rev up its mint, Who spawned the e-mail Where Jack foretold: "Just met with Ney. "We're [expletive] gold!" And Ney in 2000, A moment quite checkered Ripped magnate Gus Boulis In the Congress'nal Record. His tirade was meant To frighten the fellow, Who cops say was shot By Big Tony Moscatiello, Who got a small fortune From Jack's pal in D.C., A guy Ney said was known For his "honesty." Their pal was indicted And then copped a plea Guilty of fraud And conspiracy. For creating the vibes That condoned the bribes That corrupted the Congress that Jack built. This is DeLay, Who built the machine That redrew the districts And raised the green, That decided the races That claimed the new seats, That made the new friends That owned luxury suites, That held big galas That brought the donations That helped him to greet The great Coushatta Nation! With 800 members And fund-stream support From the famous Coushatta Casino Resort! Which paid several million For Jack to abort A rival tribe's parlor In nearby Shreveport, Which prompted the letter That outlined their claims That went to Gale Norton, Co-signed by these names: Tom DeLay, Eric Cantor, Roy Blunt, the chief whip, Speaker Dennis Hastert. That's the House leadership! That played the game And wears the shame That hangs over the Congress that Jack built. This is the Jack, Jack Abramoff, Who bought the souls, Then sold them off, Who shook the hands And financed the houses And feted the staffs, And hired the spouses, And fleeced the tribes And spread the bribes That ransomed the Congress that Jack built. Hart Seely is the editor of "Pieces of Intelligence: The Existential Poetry of Donald H. Rumsfeld."