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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (184553)	4/4/2006 4:51:45 PM
From: Sam	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Then why are you, and other liberals, seeking to undermine the FIRST MAJOR EFFORTS to reform the political systems within the Middle East??!!!! ... Liberals are undermining the effort to create a democracy in Iraq and as a result, they have undermined the US efforts to general wide-spread political and social reform throughout the Mid-East. Liberals hate Bush so much that they can only focus upon destroying his legacy, regardless of undermining the only major attempt by the west to reform the Mid-East since the fall of the Ottoman Empire. Frankly, I disagree with your premise--that this is a "major attempt by the west to reform the Mid-East since the fall of the Ottoman Empire." Or, perhaps better said, it is not a serious attempt to do so. The way Bush and gang went about this was half-assed--not just militarily, but also politically. He used this conflict for short term partisan political gains (i.e., the election of 2002). He and a few elements in the military believed it would be easy, that our troops would be drawn down to well under 100,000 by Sept of 2003. He never tried to get a real consensus behind him, rather he browbeat the Democrats into consensus, and they withered. Yes, I recall the "debate" in Sept 2002, and the infamous vote. Good grief, do you really consider that a debate? They gave no time for serious hearings, no time for serious study, they ignored previous studies that disagreed with their own half-assed "plans", including military studiesthose done at Zinni's behest by CentCom several years earlier that virtually predicted what actually happened in the aftermath of the Great Victory over Saddam. They even ignored field commanders reservations during the invasion, according to Cobra II, as I'm sure you know. And sending in Chalabi with his 500 soldiers at his side at US expense was truly an exercise in stupidity that showed what Cheney et al really wanted. Another Shah-like creature at the head of Iraq. As if there was ever a ghost's chance of that happening. Sorry, I have to go now. But to conclude--It isn't that "liberals" are seeking to undermine this effort. Rather, it is that Bush's Gang undermined it right from the start through their incredible hubris and lack of true leadership.

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (184553)	4/4/2006 8:33:46 PM
From: Noel de Leon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

"Then why are you, and other liberals, seeking to undermine the FIRST MAJOR EFFORTS to reform the political systems within the Middle East??!!!! " Because it is not an attempt to reform the political systems in the ME. It is an attempt to gain control over one of several large oil fields. "What I know is something that I can't really talk about in detail." Pure Macarthyism. No.. it has something to do with a piece of paper I signed." Macarthy waved a piece of paper too. At least Powell admitted that his paper waving at the UN was a sham.