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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Suma who wrote (25487)	7/30/2006 9:24:58 AM
From: Dale Baker	Respond to of 541791

That is the fallacy of the thinking around this "war". We will never stamp them out (we won't nuke millions and that's that) and they can never stamp us out. Absent a program to come to some kind of understanding, we have a literally endless war that kills many thousands of innocents and wrecks our polity and our economy as the corrosive effects eat away at our fundamental values. The problem in the "debate" (calling it that is being generous) is that the pro-bomb-them-all crowd instantly claims that not bombing the heathen around the clock means you want to do NOTHING, don't CARE about our civilization and want to SURRENDER right away. Which is juvenile crap, but that's what we hear. Consideration of the utility of a futile endeavor gets sidetracked.

To: Suma who wrote (25487)	7/30/2006 10:25:58 AM
From: Rambi	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 541791

I don't think it's just Iraelis or confined to any particular group. It's a good example of the kind of simplistic, default conclusion that many people come to because they haven't the time or the discipline to study the background and think through the ramifications and possibilities- or sometimes it springs from frustration and helplessness. It's easy and it probably feels good. Even on this thread, people sometimes weary of the careful dissection of terms and detailed discussion on issues. Where to me "nuance" is a positive, it seems to have become a dirty word on some other threads (who have even mocked our Lane for her commitment to it!) And while I agree that most Arabs have the same wants and needs,etc, unfortunately there are some who have as their goal the destruction of Israel and the murder not just of Jews but all the West. It may be tempting to say "they are like us" but they aren't. Their culture, their religion, their history have made them different. That was one of our huge mistakes in Iraq. So saying they are just human like us may be an equally dangerous simplification.

To: Suma who wrote (25487)	7/30/2006 10:37:07 AM
From: Lane3	Respond to of 541791

That NPR audio that was posted yesterday about this war in Iraq is a must hear. Truly. I finally listened to it this morning. I thought it was a good presentation, but that may have been as much because he said what I thought where I knew enough to have an opinion as any valid measure of quality. (He used my favorite word for Iraq, reckless.) We all feel gratified hearing others validate our perspectives. Also, there was some info in there that was new to me.

To: Suma who wrote (25487)	8/1/2006 4:52:21 PM
From: TimF	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 541791

and when they agreed that we should nuke all the Arabs... or wipe them out I just am astonished... ... I wonder, however, if this isn't the general mentality of Israeli's... I think the expression is more one of venting fear, anger, and at very worst possibly hatred, than it is one of seriously believing the action would be a good idea. They might believe its a good idea, but many people say horrible things without (at least after reflection and when the choice to do the horrible thing is really in front of them) really thinking that going ahead with it is a good idea. I read calls on SI for nuking Mecca in response to 9/11 (or at least for warning that future serious terrorist attacks would be responded to with a nuke on Mecca). Ann Coulter called for forcibly converting Muslims after 9/11. Did all the people saying such things really think we should do so? If so did they still think so after being given time to calm down? I think probably not. They where venting (or perhaps in Ann Coulter's case drumming up attention and publicity). If it was truly the considered opinion of Israelis in general that Arabs should be killed whenever possible and in as great of numbers as possible, than a lot more Arabs would be dead.