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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: michael97123 who wrote (198501)	8/22/2006 12:14:23 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

On one hand we have incent them toward moderation and on the other disincent them by getting the oil price to fall. Again, we can never, never negotiate with al quaeda but we should at least try with iran. I think the door has always been open to negotiating with Iran. All they have to do is walk through it and negotiate in good faith. It's not like we're putting special demands upon Iran, or even N. Korea. There's an international standard of conduct and we're only enforcing that standard. For example, with regard to Iran's nuclear program, there's no overt objection to their having a nuclear reactor. But considering the evidence that has been uncovered about their plans to develop nuclear weapons in violation of the NPT, then we have to enforce that standard or the entire NPT framework falls apart. Parse words with them for a moment and call hizbolla insurgents fighting assymetric war rather than terrorists. No can do Mike.. The arming and funding of Hizbullah by Syria and Iran is more than some "asymmetric" military unit. They are a military proxy of two foreign countries who have no business, let alone legitimate right, to subvert the sovereignty of the duly elected government of Lebanon. Now if Iran and Syria were arming Hizbullah as a "resistance movement" against oppression by the Lebanese government, it might be a different story, but this is clearly not the case. They armed them to fight a proxy war against Israel and subverting the sovereignty of the Lebanese government. Hell, if we could do all that with Kaddafi, we can try with iran IF THEY CHOOSE TO PLAY BY THE RULES. And that is the essence of the problem. There are "rules" and those rules need to be enforced. I look forward to the day that Americans and Iranians can work together for each other's mutual benefit. Hawk

To: michael97123 who wrote (198501)	8/23/2006 12:34:33 AM
From: Bilow	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Hi michael97123; Re: " Put the hostage crisis in history and out of current events. Hell, if we could do all that with Kaddafi, we can try with iran IF THEY CHOOSE TO PLAY BY THE RULES." What you really mean is to play by OUR rules. That is, OUR rules that say the US, Russia, Britain, France, China, India, Pakistan, North Korea and Israel can have nuclear weapons and Iran cannot. Do you really think that they are going to play? Years ago I said that Bush was the poster boy for nuclear proliferation. After we invaded Iraq, and after all the trash talking about Iran, it is quite natural that Iran would take advantage of our temporary lack of surplus military power to build nuclear weapons. In the book "Blackhawk Down", towards the end a US diplomat is quoted as saying that the problem in most of the world is that while everyone says that they want peace, what they really mean is that they want victory. In the case of Iran, it is not "RULES" that we are trying to use to exclude them from the nuclear club. Admit the truth. Rules don't mean crap. Look at how Bush went into Iraq even while the UN said it was against the rules. What constrains the actions of nations is "POWER". Unfortunately for nuclear nonproliferation, Iran has sufficient POWER to make nukes. They've got the money. No one who cares has the military forces required to stop them. If the US started a fracas, we'd get our butts charred in Iraq by those same anti tank weapons you just saw working on the Israelis. Forget your rhetoric about RULES. Talk about POWER. -- Carl