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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Ichy Smith who wrote (203670)	9/20/2006 1:27:19 PM
From: bentway	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

I'm not absolving Canada - but WE were the ones that held him without charge or representation and tortured him, NOT the Canadians. The Canadians didn't even ARREST him, let alone torture him. Why didn't OUR government ask themselves why the Canadians hadn't even ARRESTED the guy? He's just ONE guy - what about all the others? How many are being tortured in some foreign hellhole RIGHT NOW by OUR government illegally, that we have no knowledge of? en.wikipedia.org Get it dumbo? In your desperate attempts to excuse the excesses and illegality of the government of the chimp Nero, you grasp at ANY straw to shift blame! We live in a democracy, and WE'RE responsible for OUR government..

To: Ichy Smith who wrote (203670)	9/20/2006 1:34:16 PM
From: cnyndwllr	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

"What happened when he was in American Custody was reprehensible, but for the Canadian Government to be turning over information alleging terrorist ties based on no evidence is far worse." Ichy, you were joking, right? It's more reprehensible to mistakenly allege that someone has terrorist ties than it is to act on that mistaken information by torturing a false confession out of them, holding them for months away from their wife and small children, totally upending their lives and bringing a strong man to the point of considering suicide? And what if you're right? What if it is "far worse" to mistakenly allege that someone has "terrorist ties"? What does that say about the "land of the free," when probably 80% of the men held without charges, without bail and without trial for "terrorist ties" are not chargeable and have no way of proving their innocence? Who charged them falsely with terrorist crimes? Was that a "liberal" too? Too funny. Ed

To: Ichy Smith who wrote (203670)	9/20/2006 1:51:40 PM
From: cnyndwllr	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 281500

Ichy, a couple of days ago you made a big deal out the point that adhering to the Geneva conventions wouldn't likely generate reciprocity when our own soldiers were captured by people like those fighting us in Iraq. That's a valid point but you miss the real reason behind the "liberal" position favoring strict adherence to the Geneva conventions. If you want to lead the world forward into peace and a more civilized state of existence then you MUST follow the rule of law. In addition, the laws must be "civilized" as opposed to barbaric. You must be more fair than your enemies, more enlightened and, as a nation, you must adhere to the golden rule. If some of your citizens fail to live up to the nation's high standards then that's human nature, but if the nation fails to set and enforce high standards of decency, justice and fairness then we cannot lead the world forward. If the nation fails that test then all of the "high ideals" Bush parades as American values are empty, two-faced deceptions and will be greeted with distrust and ridicule from people all across the globe. (Did you see the reception to his recent UN speech from diplomats throughout the "civilized" world.) Torture might offer some benefits in the short term. The costs over time, however, are far too heavy a burden to bear. Ed