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To: koan who wrote (28596)	12/30/2006 4:27:45 AM
From: E. Charters	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 78410

I don't think we understand the existence of a rock, or where it came from and when let alone how and when man as we know him or any mosquito got here. We are concerned with how many got here and how be evolved, but not so much any other any animal. Did they evolve similarly and to a similar degree? We suspect that they did, but we don't see many treatises indicating how much say a Gibbon Ape may have gone forward, or a chipmunk. We do see evidence of some changes, with elephants, dogs and horses, or rather the dying out of species, which is more demonstrable. There were easily several species of horse and elephant, and we know of two perhaps 3 species of hominid, and it has been asserted with some skeletal examinations and authority there may have been more than a dozen, with Neandrathal and Cro-Mags only two. I think it possible the degree of interbreeding amongst the species was fairly possible, and perhaps different races of mankind interbred with different species of man differently. However the strongest adaptations which seem to separate the races seem to be overwhelmingly environmentally driven, particularly thermodynamically, an all important energy arbiter. Blacks are black to lose heat. Whites need to be white to be able to hide in snowbanks (from and) like Polar Bears, obviously. I have seen assertions that Neandrathal characteristics, which we see a shadow of in some European groups, with receding foreheads and overhanging eyebrow arches, and it seems hard to imagine that Cro-Mags and Neands did not play around a bit.. but not to say the kids survived.. and we have seen assertions that the Neandrathal DNA was markedly different.. almost alien from Cro-Mag, modern hominid, who arose rather suddenly.. the mystery of Cro-Mag homunculus is as solid as the mystery of any present animal in the phylogenetic scale. Not one of them has a clear upward path from Amoeba.. tantalizing clues, obvious adaptive character, but no solid path of building from simpler form to offshoot present form.. The ones who say that form was created to fit an existing environment are being cute, as if thousands of different screws were made to fit each hole post facto by a master carpenter who gave up trying to grow structures that fit their homes when he/she could. The ones who say skin colour is not a genetic differentiation are being political. Nature does not need to do things frivolously. Differences are for a reason. They are expensive and time consuming for dear Mother N, and she does not appreciate scientists who do not appreciate her work. Phenotype my vestigial ass. en.wikipedia.org I want genotype or I want no difference at all. There are no useless characteristics, just unimaginative scientific minds. That alone however seems to ironically defeat my assertion. Unimaginative scientists may indeed be a useless mutation, an appendix on man's colonic self-investigation. EC:<-}

To: koan who wrote (28596)	12/30/2006 5:50:47 AM
From: Herb Duncan	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 78410

Been thinking about Neanderthal for a solid week now. Was he a dead end from a common ancestor, or was he us? Did Cro-Magnun and Neanderthal interbreed. If they did we are the result? Koan, in the end it rally doesn't matter it was what it was and it is what it is. We are here and we will continue to evolve as "existance possibilities". You are going to hurt your head thinking too hard. Spend you time trying to figure out what life form Bush came from. Hum, interesting question, is there such a thing as regressive life forms?

To: koan who wrote (28596)	12/30/2006 4:56:47 PM
From: Gib Bogle	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 78410

I wrote a response to your post yesterday, koan, but it has been deleted by the powers that be. Interesting. I guess it's because I used a good old anglo-saxon word to refer to the act of *ual congress (i.e. I used the word in it's correct sense, not as an expletive). This is a subject that I feel strongly about, for what it's worth - calling a spade a spade. Some people, on the other hand, would rather use a more genteel word for a spade. So here's a sanitized version of my post, for those with delicate sensibilities. On the subject of interbreeding between homo sapiens and so-called Neanderthals, it is a well-known fact (although of course strongly to be deplored) that in certain situations human males have been known to engage in irregular ual relations with various animals. (*ing pathetic, isn't it, this euphemistic carry-on?) Given this propensity, it seems highly unlikely that Neanderthals, so like us in every way, would have been off bounds for *ual activity. Therefore interbreeding would have occurred at some (presumably low) rate provided the union was fertile. Maybe we had drifted too far apart genetically when contact was made for there to be offspring, but I doubt it. BTW a big breakthrough in charting evolution was made by my fellow countryman Allan Wilson, who hit on using chromosomal mutation rates and mitochondrial DNA to estimate the times at which species separated. A great scientist. awcmee.massey.ac.nz