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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Sam who wrote (212355)	1/10/2007 9:50:35 AM
From: carranza2	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 281500

Get some perspective, man. LMAO! The Palestinians and their supporters do not want peace with Israel. This should be amply obvious by the failed discussions Clinton chaired at Camp David, when the Pals got an offer from the Israelis which was 99% of what they wanted. Arafat torpedoed it because it would have meant the end of his perch atop the Palestinian soap box and the end of a the flow of a lot of aid money which he was stealing. Since Arafat's death, Hamas and other radicals are in charge. Their avowed mission is to expel Israel. They have continued their so called strugle with suicide bombings, a tactic which is barbaric, and which puts the issue in a very stark frame. How can peace be considered under these circumstances? The contention that Palestinian rights is the issue which has divided Arabs and Jews is a red herring. The problem is that Israel is a phenomenally successful country, one which produces tons of very innovative high tech stuff, and is otherwise a bastion of democracy in a region that has never experienced it. And it has accomplished all of this in a few short years. Israel's existence is irrefutable proof that the Arab and Muslim culture is in decline since they were turned away at the gates of Vienna many centuries ago. This leads to rage, antisemitism, and a whole host of nasty, insane behavior.

To: Sam who wrote (212355)	1/10/2007 9:57:00 AM
From: GST	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

<you also appear to suggest that Israeli actions toward Arabs will be responsible for Arabs "vaporizing" Israel and that this will be justifiable. This is lunacy.> No it is not lunacy Sam. Israel cannot do more than play its part. There is no military solution that will keep Israel safe forever. It is that simple. But for better or worse, Israel has committed itself to military solutions. There are reasons for this -- and rehashing them does little more than spin an elaborate apology for what many have seen as essential military self-defense. But the problem in the long run is that there is no way to secure Israel with a purely military strategy, and the emphasis on a military solution makes it all but impossible to tell the truth about where Israel has failed -- and where those who claim to support Israel have done the most harm to Israel. Israel will cease to exist at some point in the future if it cannot find peace with its neighbors, as distinct from military superiority. And no peace can be found until Israel plays its part and faces up to the atrocities it has committed and is committing in the name of its own self-defense. Fail to do that and you fail to secure Israel in the long run. Israel is destined to become a nuclear ashtray -- but this destiny is not written in the stars. This destiny is directly from the pen of those who time and again speak out to denounce criticism of Israeli atrocities.