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Politics : New FADG. -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Geoff Altman who wrote (2032)	7/6/2007 1:41:05 PM
From: SARMAN	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 4152

Kumar has a point You take shots at AQ, Taliban, Hammas, Fatah, LeT etc, I dont have a problem. Its the political world. You take shots at Islam or Judaism or any other faith in generic terms, I do have a problem, and will not allow it on this thread. Kumar, one of the problems dealing with the ME situation is that Islam IS a political machine. I don't see how you can discuss affairs in the ME without touching on Islamic reform and how to bring it about, or the final goals of Islam. Your sentence could also be read as: "Kumar, one of the problems dealing with the ME situation is that Judaism IS a political machine. I don't see how you can discuss affairs in the ME without touching on Judaism reform and how to bring it about, or the final goals of Zionism.' So you see where Kumar has a point. It could get really ugly. If he allows one side to take cheap shots he has to allow the other side to rebuttals.

To: Geoff Altman who wrote (2032)	7/6/2007 4:05:14 PM
From: Peter Dierks	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 4152

"I don't see how you can discuss affairs in the ME without touching on Islamic reform and how to bring it about, or the final goals of Islam." Having only the word of others who have read the koran to go on, I can only write in general terms. Even those who like to claim that islam is the religion of peace never seem to be able to deny that the koran instructs muslims to subjugate and humiliate "infidels". They never seem to be able to deny that the goal is to control the whole world. If these are in fact true, the discussion of US foreign affairs while excluding the discourse on the problems caused by it is about as useful as a three dollar bill.

To: Geoff Altman who wrote (2032)	7/6/2007 5:21:03 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 4152

"I don't see how you can discuss affairs in the ME without touching on Islamic reform and how to bring it about, or the final goals of Islam." There is a basic flaw in that suggestion than some people, understandably, don't get. We've been reforming society and political systems for centuries and the benefits are undeniable. There are societies and political systems founded on Islam so it seems clear to you that when those systems are headed down a bad path, changing them at the foundation is advisable. You are wrong. You can only change the religion if you assume it is a faulty design. Muslims believe it is the perfect message from God, you don't. What venue for reform do you think would be effective, to convince Muslims it is an ancient book of wisdom that needs an update? You will find your self spinning in place. You could suggest cultural reform, starting with the dismantling of tyranists, which most are open to. The suggestion to reform the religion carries a transparent agenda that is anti-Islam and is a non-starter.