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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Steve Lokness who wrote (49034)	2/13/2008 11:27:29 AM
From: Lane3	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 543091

So do you find it acceptable to stay in Iraq for 20 years to get them to a point they would be able to patrol their own people? I don't know. I don't find that an attractive prospect and I wish with all my might that we hadn't put ourselves in the position to have to ask the question. But it would depend on the cost, risks, and rewards of all the alternatives and their probabilities of success. I don't presume to know enough to tackle that analysis. What I do know is that rejecting that unattractive prospect independent of the alternatives and all their consequences is short sighted. Like I said before, there's no do-over. If pulling out is embraced as a proxy for a do-over wish, that's not healthy.

To: Steve Lokness who wrote (49034)	2/13/2008 11:32:38 AM
From: Sam	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 543091

Steve, I was thinking of replying somewhat like you did to Lane3. The comparisons to Germany and Japan are completely bogus. These were countries that were totally defeated. The governments of those countries had, by and large, the loyalty of their people. Germany's government was removed, Japan's government--in particular the Emperor--surrendered, and the warmongers in the government were either killed, committed suicide or were disgraced. There were no factions in either country comparable to the Kurds, Sunni and Shia. Any opposition to the Allies were war weary, broke, and demoralized, incapable of any sustained attacks or resistance. If I believed that having a US presence in Iraq really was a necessary and sufficient condition for Iraq to pull together and become a self-sufficient, peaceful country, then I would reconsider my position to get out. I don't believe that. I don't believe that suddenly the Sunnis who are now our "partners" suddenly love us nor do I believe that they wouldn't turn on us just as quickly as they turned in favor of us last year if it suited their purposes. We are trying to square a circle over there. We want majority rule in a place where sigificiant numbers of the minorities don't trust the clear majority, and for good historical reasons. And where at least a fairly significant number of those minorities would strongly prefer to be independent (Kurd) if there weren't countervailing historical and political forces opposing that independence. Combined with plenty of money, weapons and historical grievances on all sides, this is a recipe for disaster, a tinderbox waiting to be set off, not "living happily ever after" in a responsible government accountable for its actions.