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Politics : Politics for Pros- moderated -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Elroy who wrote (242962)	3/21/2008 3:30:19 AM
From: Nadine Carroll	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 794008

Some churches are more political than others. Trinity United preaches black liberation theology, based on the writings of James Cone. Very political, very leftist. It's an American race conscious version of Latin America's liberation theology, which is socialism rolled together with Catholicism. If Rev. Wright were just expressing some personal anger and letting it show from the pulpit, you could separate the spiritual guidance from the anger. But with Wright's theology, it's won't fly.

To: Elroy who wrote (242962)	3/21/2008 7:20:18 AM
From: Brumar89	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 794008

Many of us probably have excellent jewelers who are also racists, fantastic accountants who smell bad, wonderful surgeons who are sexual deviants, and outstanding dentists who hate the USA. We maintain our relationship with them for the purpose which suits us, and their offensive characteristic is a side element of which we are unaware, or it is 1% of their relationship to us while 99% is their ability to deliver they quality service to us. First, such things are usually kept secret as you yourself said so the customers don't know about it. Wright however shouted his hate speech from the pulpit and his congregation loved him for it. The congregations enthusiastic reaction shows the message they were hearing was expected and welcome, not something unusual. So this is a case of public knowledge. Personally I wouldn't have an America hating dentist, sexual deviant doctor, etc. etc. So the question remains, why did and does Obama stay with this man and this church. Some churches are more political than others. If 2% of the sermon in a church over the course of the year is an expression of the preacher's political views, do you really think every congregation member than holds opposing political views leaves the church? I don't. Are these congregants who stay with a church that occassionally espouses political views other than their own flawed for not finding a church who's preacher expresses the political view that they hold? I wouldn't care if the political views are conventional. But "God damn America" and sadistically crowing "America's chickens have come home to roost" the Sunday after 911 is NOT conventional. Hell yeah, I would walk away from this church. So would most people. Because this "political message" is so extreme and hateful it offends common decency. No. Most people go to Church to study their religion and praise God, not to discuss US politics. Again, I cite the congregations enthusiastic embrace of Wright's hate speech. This church is one people go to to hear their hatred confirmed from the pulpit. We've seen that truth with our own eyes and heard it with our own ears. Don't try to tell people we don't understand what was going on there. Hell, the Catholic church kept known pedophiles on the job for decades until their crime was finally uncovered. How many of those churches lost 100% of their membership? How many lost 50% of their membership? None. I'm not a Catholic, but I'm sure pedophilia is not blessed, accepted or approved of by the church. So when the church did what it did, it was done by administrative bishops acting in secret, doubtless hoping to keep a shameful secret. Wright's hate speech is right out there in the open and the congregation of TUCC loves it. My point is that if the best the enemies of Obama can do is to attack him with this type of "guilt by association", then he's pretty strong. A vote for Obama is a vote for Obama, it is not a vote for every single person that Obama has been close to during his lifetime. When the association is with a morally sick movement that even an Obama apologist has admitted is the moral equivalent of the Aryan Nations on this thread, then Obama's association with it is relevant.

To: Elroy who wrote (242962)	3/21/2008 8:22:51 AM
From: John Carragher	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 794008

the catholic church didn't lose 100/50% but they sure lost a lot of church goers over the priest pedophiles.

To: Elroy who wrote (242962)	3/21/2008 10:31:45 AM
From: ManyMoose	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 794008

Many of us probably have excellent jewelers who are also racists, fantastic accountants who smell bad, wonderful surgeons who are sexual deviants, and outstanding dentists who hate the USA. We maintain our relationship with them for the purpose which suits us, and their offensive characteristic is a side element of which we are unaware, or it is 1% of their relationship to us while 99% is their ability to deliver they quality service to us. I don't do business with that type of person. The INSTANT that I found out about such a hypocritical attribute in somebody I did business with would be the last instant of my relationship with him or her. Fortunately, it's pretty easy to identify them early on and avoid them altogether. You should choose your business associates more carefully. That's probably where you're getting such bad ideas.

To: Elroy who wrote (242962)	3/21/2008 11:35:59 AM
From: skinowski	Respond to of 794008

I think that your defense of Mr. Obama is better - and more clever - than the one which he himself elected to use. However, Trinity church is known to be very political. I've heard years ago about the "radical" Rev. Wright and his politics. He is the man who went with Farrakhan to pay homage to Qadaffi. Rev. Wright is a well known and very controversial figure. You see, Mr. Obama didn't need to have 50% of his supporters to turn away from him in order to lose his presidential bid. 3-4% could well do it. And - such a loss was very predictable, to say the least, once the Wright story would become widely known. Therefore, perhaps Obama showed friendship and loyalty towards his friend by not separating from him - but politically, not having done so a long time ago was suicidal behavior... very poor judgment. And frankly, the very least we want from a President is to have good judgment and to be a decent politician. On a simply human level, I wonder how he and his wife could allow their children to be exposed to Wright's crazy nonsense. I wasn't going to vote for Obama anyway - must say that besides the political differences I found his "messianic" temperament to be somewhat disturbing. Promise of "change" when uttered by an inspirational speaker has a wonderful ring to it, but... excuse me, exactly What change we are talking about? The reason that America is a successful nation is that it is structured in such a way that individual politicians - even presidents - have limited power. They are reduced to haggling with other branches of government every step of the way. Anyone who wants to "transcend" politics - as well as all the usual differences among groups and classes etc. in order to get things "changed" - IMHO, is thinking in a direction which may not be good for this nation in the long run.

To: Elroy who wrote (242962)	3/21/2008 12:40:43 PM
From: Neeka	Respond to of 794008

Now that we have learned that such things are being said.........if even just occasionally...........how many hate America, hate whitey people are being created in these kinds of Churches?