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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Patricia Trinchero who wrote (55209)	3/22/2008 3:06:59 AM
From: Cogito	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 542201

>>Then why does the Rev throw in that "rich white folk" dialogue.<< Patricia - It's easy to see why if you look at that whole speech. He's basically pointing out that "rich white folk" run this country. Hard to deny that is so. A white episcopal minister who said that "rich black people" ran this country would, of course, be laughed right out of the pulpit. By the way, the only video I've seen where he uses that particular phrase is one in which he's saying that Hillary Clinton hasn't had it as hard as Obama, because she's one of the rich white people who run the country. And interestingly, that particular video is not of a sermon, but of a speech he gave at some university somewhere. I personally haven't seen footage of him using that phrase within a sermon. Not saying such footage doesn't exist, but I haven't seen it. You may find fault with his ever using that phrase, and I wouldn't blame you. I just don't think it's a note he's hitting all the time. I agree with you that the dialogue needs to be kept civil. Part of keeping it civil means giving people the benefit of the doubt, and not rushing to judgment about them. - Allen

To: Patricia Trinchero who wrote (55209)	3/22/2008 3:07:11 AM
From: Mac Con Ulaidh	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 542201

"can you imagine the repercussions if a Episcopal minister made those same statements with the word" black" substituted for "white"?" all them many decades they talked of blacks. they simply switched to gays. where is the outrage when that happens? uhm, isn't there. get a grip. they just switched 'bad guys', but everyone knows it is all the same thing. everyone who matters knows. and 'rich white person'? that wouldn't be me. is it you? and doesn't that mean the wealthy, the powerful, who keep down all the poor, no matter their race or gender. he said 'rich'. translate to powerful and of course it is white. duh. that is the ruling class in america. and it is about class and maintaining status and money. he isn't downing the 'typical' white person, he is talking about a class structure, and the ruling class (which we do have in america) happens to be white. and that ruling class hates poor whites at least as much as they hate blacks. they are all just fodder for thier mills.

To: Patricia Trinchero who wrote (55209)	3/22/2008 3:08:36 AM
From: Cogito	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 542201

This was a duplicate, but I thought of something else. Today I heard a lot of noise on Fox, and even a mention on NPR, about Obama's use of the phrase "typical white person" to describe his grandmother. Some of the people said that if a white person used the phrase "typical black person" everyone would be outraged. But that's silly. They're taking three words and reacting to them, instead of listening to what the man was saying. He said that his grandmother loved him more than anything in the world, but that she would occasionally utter racial stereotypes that made him cringe. He said that of course he would not disown her for that. I think it's a perfectly valid point, and he wasn't portraying her as a horrible racist as many people have suggested he was. If a white person said "The typical black person is good looking and industrious", I don't think anyone would freak out about it. So really, the phrase "typical white person" isn't, in itself, a problem. And let's not forget something. Barack Obama is just as much a white person as he is a black person. - Allen

To: Patricia Trinchero who wrote (55209)	3/22/2008 10:16:56 AM
From: epicure	Respond to of 542201

"I just don't think it serves anyone in a positive manner." I agree with you. I don't think anyone here thinks the reverends statements are positive. But do you change those statements by being combative? No. Probably not. Obama said he had words with the reverend about some of his views. I would be inclined to believe him. I think it's very hard to have words with an older person about stuff like this. If an older person (or probably a younger one, too) hates people of color, or white people, gays, or "the rich", how do you get that person to change? Most haters don't, no matter what you say. So then, you come to a choice. Do you throw the person away because of the people he or she hates, or do you stay connected. At bottom people are angry at Obama for his decision to stay connected with this man who is clearly racist. It's not uncommon in the black community- it's not uncommon anywhere, actually. Obama is half white. When the reverend talks his angry talk, do you think Obama would embrace that hate of 1/2 of himself, and his family? He just doesn't seem like that kind of guy. There are self hating people- but he doesn't strike me as one of them. Hey, maybe he is, and he's just putting on a good show, but he sure seems mild and inclusive.