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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: ChinuSFO who wrote (94937)	11/9/2008 8:31:05 AM
From: slacker711	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 541791

Yes, Pakistan must be prevented from falling into the hands of jihadis. But this task must be cooperatively undertaken by the international community, especially by affected regional actors such as Russia, Iran, India and China and not unilaterally by the US army. Yes, now that Obama is President, I am sure that Russia, Iran, and China are going to rush to help the US stabilize Pakistan. What an unadulterated fantasy. I thought that there were some unrealistic expectations in the US, but that seems like nothing compared to the stuff from overseas. Slacker

To: ChinuSFO who wrote (94937)	11/9/2008 9:08:03 AM
From: biotech_bull	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 541791

Chinu, Thanks for posting that article. The Lincoln quote crystallized for me the significance of this election as a whole and the gay rights issue in particular. I'd been reflecting on my heated rant trying to put it perspective, understand it. And I have been impressed by the quality of posts here the past 24 hours especially from Dale, Karen and Rambi to name a few and by their passion in particular. These are our best centrists and were uncharacteristically passionate. Then it dawned on me that this is not a wide-eyed liberal or even a religious issue. This is a centrist issue, that it cuts to the core of what this nation represents. This glorious experiment, as Karen put it effusively, is alive and well - the reason why this election has been so inspiring here and the world over and the reason why Prop 8 was so disheartening. I went and found the entire paragraph of Lincoln's letter and posted it below, well worth a read - smart guy that Lincoln. And the Jefferson dude is not bad either <g> BUT, soberly, it is now no child's play to save the principles of Jefferson from total overthrow in this nation. One would state with great confidence that he could convince any sane child that the simpler propositions of Euclid are true; but nevertheless he would fail, utterly, with one who should deny the definitions and axioms. The principles of Jefferson are the definitions and axioms of free society. And yet they are denied and evaded, with no small show of success. One dashingly calls them "glittering generalities." Another bluntly calls them "self-evident lies." And others insidiously argue that they apply only to "superior races." These expressions, differing in form, are identical in object and effect - the supplanting the principles of free government, and restoring those of classification, caste, and legitimacy. They would delight a convocation of crowned heads plotting against the people. They are the vanguard - the miners and sappers of returning despotism. We must repulse them, or they will subjugate us. This is a world of compensation; and he who would be no slave must consent to have no slave. Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves, and, under a just God, cannot long retain it. All honor to Jefferson - to the man who, in the concrete pressure of a struggle for national independence by a single people, had the coolness, forecast, and capacity to introduce into a merely revolutionary document an abstract truth, applicable to all men and all times, and so to embalm it there that today and in all coming days it shall be a rebuke and a stumbling block to the very harbingers of reappearing tyranny and oppression. Your Obedient servant, A. Lincoln.

To: ChinuSFO who wrote (94937)	11/9/2008 9:53:50 AM
From: Suma	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 541791

The Truth Will Tell by Guy Reel In a few months, it should soon become apparent to all but the lowest knuckle-draggers that Barack Obama is not a terrorist sympathizer, he's not a Muslim, he's not going to take away your guns, he's not a Black Liberation theologist, he's not going to raise taxes on the poor or middle class, he won't surrender in Iraq, he isn't supported by al-Qaeda, he won't play nice with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, he isn't a socialist and his health care plan isn't even universal, much less "socialized medicine." All of these outright lies — which formed the basis of John McCain's run for the presidency — will be easily disproven as events unfold during the Obama administration. So when the predictive lies don't come true, and the others are exposed as utter nonsense, I'm going to expect an apology from Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin and all the other professional liars. They must come before the nation and say, "I'm sorry, I was wrong. And I also lied." Nothing short of a statement like that will atone for the outrageousness of their claims. Yet, obviously, that won't happen. Limbaugh and his ilk will have moved on to a whole new avalanche of lies. Palin seems to have difficulty making even the most elemental assertion without lying — just the other day, she claimed there was no friction whatsoever between her and McCain's staff, which anyone who can read knows is demonstrably untrue. And she probably thinks — and will think for the rest of her life — that she didn't lie about Obama hard enough. The right-wing still believes they lost because they weren't tough enough on Obama — that the campaign missed many golden opportunities to lie. Of course, they don't really see it that way. They think the truth about Obama was suppressed by the mainstream media — that no one wrote the full story about his association with William Ayres, that his relationship with Jeremiah Wright wasn't emphasized enough, that his link to Rashid Khalidi was swept under the rug. Of course, because their worldview necessitates it, they are blissfully unaware of the reams of copy written about all of these things. The reason that these weren't daily stories in newspapers and on television was because reporters looked into these matters and concluded there just wasn't much there! Although the right-wingers might think otherwise from watching Fox News, real reporters don't just write things to support a particular point of view. The good ones actually try to find out the truth and report on objective reality. Many of these people still believe that Obama is dangerous and that his election to president means grave things for the future of America. Never mind that the election of George Bush actually did prove to be a dangerous disaster. They will believe in the goodness of Bush and in the falsehoods about Obama even when it becomes apparent that none of the lies are true. Some of these right-wing believers aren't fully to blame. They have been misled and brainwashed by an army of conservative blowhards who tell lies, minute by minute, 24/7, on talk radio broadcast in every town in America. This parade of charlatans has poisoned the minds of millions and caused them to believe that the nation has elected a terrorist-sympathizing, socialist baby-killer. Professionals such as Limbaugh may realize, at times, they are lying, that they are engaging in hyperbole, but the listeners often do not. That's why Obama's election, and his performance over the next four years that will disprove all the absurd assertions about him, may actually be a chance for some of these people to wash the scales from their eyes and see how easily they have been played for fools. Well, one can at least hope. Published on Saturday, November 8, 2008 by CommonDreams.org