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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lee Bush who wrote (9065)	10/23/1997 1:19:00 PM
From: Jack Zahran	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

Lee, Nice comments. I especially like your comments on strict creationists. Did you know that the original hebrew word used for the creative day actually means an epoch of time. So the creative days are not measured by the human experience, but rather are differentiated by the significant events that occurred during those periods. No doubt some days were longer than others, maybe even measuring into the millions of years (No problem for the eternal God). The fossil records agree with the original language used in Genesis. Every school kid is taught that different creatures began to appear at different levels, almost suddenly. Not coincidentally the Genesis account harmonizes with the fossil record in the order that the creatures appear. Strict creationists take the English denotation of the word Day as gospel, when a little research will show them that the English language word "day" in the creation context actually connotes a period of time not limited to 24 hours, but marked by significant events.

To: Lee Bush who wrote (9065)	10/23/1997 1:55:00 PM
From: Jack Zahran	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

In regards to the 1000 years. It is an area that many people stumble over. Do we take it literally or not? If a person were to believe in a literal 1000 year period that the earth will be ruled over, then they have to believe that the Kingdom of God is a real governement with Jesus as its King, ruling over the earth. Those who believe that the Kingdom is a condition in the heart take the stand that it cannot be literal, because that contradicts their basic belief in the Kingdom. So the real question should be: Is the Kingdom of God a real government? (see my earlier post on this: exchange2000.com ) Now that we established that it is and there is no reason that we should not take the 1000 years literally, what will that government do during that 1000 years: Sanctify God's name and uphold his sovereignty Matt 6:9.10; Ezek 38 23 Put an end to Satan's tolerated rulership over the world Rev 20:2,3 Unify all creation in worship of the one true God Rev 5:13; 15:3,4 Bring mankind back into harmonious relationship with God Rom 8:19-21 Free mankind from all threat of war Ps 46:8,9; Isa 2:4 Rid the earth of corrupt rulers and oppression Ps 110:5; Ps 72:12-14 Provide an abundance of food for all mankind Ps 72:16; Isa 25:6 Remove sickness and disabilities of all kinds Luke 7:22; 9:11 Provide suitable homes for everyone Isa 65:21,22 Assure satisfying employment for all Isa 65:23 Guarantee security, freedom from danger to one's person or property Micah 4:4; Ps 37:10,11 Cause righteousness and justice to prevail 2 Peter 3:13; Isa. 11:3-5 Safeguard mankind from any injury due to natual forces Matt 4:37-41 Resurrect the dead John 5:28,29; Rev 20:12 Remove all death due to inferitence of Adamic sin Isa 25:8; Rev 21:4 Provide a world in which people genuinely love one another John 13:35 Bring animals and humans into harmonious relationship with one another Isa 11:6-9; Hos. 2:18 Make the earth a paradise Luke 23:43; Ps 98:7-9;Gen 1:28; 2:15; Isaiah 55:11 Only a real government, perfect heavenly government can do these things. No man made government has even come close. Jesus is a real King who has legions of angels at his command. His Kingship has God's backing and the scriptures clearly show that his rule would start in the midst of his enemies.

To: Lee Bush who wrote (9065)	10/24/1997 12:36:00 AM
From: Robert E. Hall	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 39621

Greetings Lee, I thank you for your reply . With regards to your question I believe I have stated in an earlier post that one of the " Keys " in understanding this final Book of the Bible was the pre-requisite to have studied the previous 65 Books. With this in mind , we must now give close attention to how the contents of this book is to be delivered to the Churches. Another " key " ( so easily overlooked ) that answers this question is given to us in Rev. 1:1..... He sent and signified it by His angel to His bond-servant, John. This word " signify " means to express a message or picture of things using signs, symbols and tokens. This Book is exogetical, that is, the Bible can speak for itself. When we begin to study this book we start to become aware in many instances that what John is seeing in these visions are " echos " of pictures and ideas listed throughout the entire 65 previous books. We see that the different numbers used describe a much larger and clearer picture of the message that is being delivered to us by this method , using signs symbols and tokens. I believe that with these two "keys" in your possesion , the Holy Spirit will enlighten the seeking heart, whether in the first century or twenty centuries later according to the promise He made in Rev.1:3. Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near. Lee I trust I have said something meaningful to you, May Our Father Grant you to see the simple truths deliverd by our faithful brother John and delivered to the saints of all ages. Grace and peace be upon you. Robert

To: Lee Bush who wrote (9065)	10/26/1997 8:49:00 PM
From: Jane Hafker	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 39621

Dear, dear brothers. I haven't seen anything like this for many, many years, and truly the Lord Himself must enjoy this place. It is strange to read so much upper room understanding of Jesus Christ and things of the Holy Spirit. I do see that reading down the threads, all are right. No one is wrong. Like the Bereans, it is good to search out a matter, as long as it does not interrupt fellowship in the love of Jesus Christ, which is the only point of his death and resurrection--to be sure we would all have a way to make it to heaven to do this forever and ever. I find that as the world implodes upon itself it is all the more important to press on and get closer and closer. So I haven't seen a word I really disagree with, and think it is quite amazing, really. It is just different points of view, seeing the scriptures from a slant based on our human minds' abilities to comprehend the uncomprehendible in the first place. I think it is a miracle that anyone posts here. As for the millenium and being on earth with Jesus for 1000 years. Personally, the idea disgusted me for 10 years. I couldn't even discuss it. It seemed insane that God would even consider dragging us back to a place that has been so disappointing from Heaven's view. However, I do believe that precious John made every indication to write Revelations as clearly as possible. He repeated words two or three times in order to make the point perfectly clear. John wrote as God instructed, the things God wanted him to write. Since my only prayer of understanding God is through Jesus Christ, obviously most of God's message was delivered to John through Jesus Christ, who he had been best friends with while Christ lived on earth. I believe John, Johannan, must have been pretty special to be God's best friend. Therefore, I love him very much. I also take him at his word, and have no problem with anything word he ever wrote. If anyone has any problem with me, that again is God's problem. Take it up with Him. Here is what John wrote about the 1000 years with Jesus: ...Rev. 20:4-6, speaking of what we call the millenium, then: Rev.20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed....and shall go to DECEIVE THE NATIONS which are in the four corners of the EARTH...GOG and MAGOG...and then satan is finally contained forever. Here the word "nations" is: ethnos: as a race, probably from one habitat; i.e., a tribe, spec. a foreign, non-Jewish one; ...gentile, heathen, nation, people. Here the word "earth" is ghay: contr. from a prim. word: soil; by extension . a region, or the solid part or the whole of the terrene globe (includes the occupants in each application). country, earth, ground, land, world. Then and only then does John record that at this time he sees the NEW heaven and the NEW earth, because the other is now passed away and it seem a no-brainer that we all move on to something even better. And for those of us who love God's creation to the extent that it is possible for humans to love the product of the Creator, Heaven being earth as it originally was works for me anyway, especially since we are told that the lamb now lies down with the lion, and the lion no longer tears him to shreds in front of our eyes. So, either way, I'm very happy about it. When we also consider that gentle, gentle precious John actually got an attitude when he finished writing, and rather strongly warned do-gooders in the future who didn't like the ideas God was showing him NOT to change so much as a dot on an "i", or and I quote: ...If any man add unto these things, GOD shall add unto him the plagues that are written ni ths book: And if any man SHALL TAKE AWAY from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of LIFE!! IMHO it is good to simply accept the words as they were written by John, surely a man we can trust, and just wait to see what happens. I believe to question John must grieve Jesus. It just seems that would be the case.