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To: LoneClone who wrote (126212)12/5/2009 5:49:24 PM
From: Tommaso11 Recommendations  Read Replies (5) | Respond to of 206089
 
If you look at it as a political issue, those who are worried about GW have little to gain personally from advancing their views, whereas those who think it's an imaginary phenomenon are allied with unbridled capitalistic exploitation of the planet for financial gain.

It's not as severe a case of repression of science as it was when the Inquisition tried to suppress Galileo, I guess.

Since I own Canadian Oil Sands Trust stock, I ought to be on the anti-global warming side. Instead, I would favor a very large investment by the Syncrude project to reduce CO2 emissions and control pollution and restore the Alberta landscape, even if it means a lot less income for me.

At least Geeenpeace has come around to favoring nuclear power.



To: LoneClone who wrote (126212)12/5/2009 7:53:07 PM
From: tom pope6 Recommendations  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 206089
 
science is not done by an industry-bankrolled organisation illegally hacking into a database and cherry-picking exactly which out of context tiny pieces of a huge effort they can misconstrue

That's simply not proven. Where's the cherry picking smoking gun? What I see is a gang of intellectual thugs.

My attitude towards GW is based in part on Pascal's bet, the French theologian who put forward the idea that if you believe in god and it turns out there is no god, nothing worse happens to you than going to sleep when you die. But if you choose not to believe, and it turns out there is indeed a god, then the consequences are dire - eternal damnation.

Same with GW. If we make no preparations then we run the risk of catastrophe. So I'm prepared to accept sacrifices (tax-wise) that will accompany emissions reductions spending in the expectation that they will have a mitigating effect if the theory turns out to indeed be explanatory for the retreat of the ice cap etc phenomena.

That said, I still think there are a lot of smug ideologues in the GW camp who remind me of the Red Guards during the Great Cultural Revolution. And hypocrites like Gore who are carbon neutral only because they can afford to buy credits so they can maintain their extravagant carbon belching life style.

(Of course, the flaw in Pascal's bet is that if you make a calculated decision to believe in god, god will see through you and still condemn you to hell. And if he doesn't, then there is indeed no god.)



To: LoneClone who wrote (126212)12/6/2009 2:44:41 AM
From: Selectric II13 Recommendations  Respond to of 206089
 
Whistleblowers are lauded by the left when it's to their liking. When not, they're "illegal hackers."

LOL



To: LoneClone who wrote (126212)12/6/2009 8:34:16 AM
From: whitepine13 Recommendations  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 206089
 
Golly, Gulmer,

Climate or Weather? Science vs “personal anecdote” ---------OR is it

‘science from ‘personal anecdote”?

The logic of the AGW posts is so scientifically compelling.
============================

To: Umunhum who wrote (126190)12/5/2009 1:22:23 PM
From: LoneClone6 Recommendations Read Replies (3) of 126225

I can't believe you are still disseminating this tripe. You have no understanding of how science works.

LC


I will go with my own personal observations of receding glaciers, and what I hear from my friends who live in Arctic Canada who are aghast at the rapid changes their surroundings are going through. <i( WEATHER, perhaps )
==========================

OMG……Snow in Houston before Christmas. GWarming…science in Texas.

Tell us again LoneClone, how does science work?

icecap.us
11. The cyclic downward trend in the amount of ice left in the Arctic at the end of the summer has ended. The ice data from polar orbiting satellites clearly shows the extent of arctic ice is increasing. There is today 25 percent more ice than 2 years ago.

13. Satellite measurements show there is more ice in Antarctic than 30 years ago. News media reports only talk about shrinking ice in the Arctic, never about growing ice in Antarctica.
========================

Climategate: Follow the Money
Climate change researchers must believe in the reality of global warming just as a priest must believe in the existence of God.

By BRET STEPHENS

Last year, ExxonMobil donated $7 million to a grab-bag of public policy institutes, including the Aspen Institute, the Asia Society and Transparency International. It also gave a combined $125,000 to the Heritage Institute and the National Center for Policy Analysis, two conservative think tanks that have offered dissenting views on what until recently was called—without irony—the climate change "consensus."

To read some of the press accounts of these gifts—amounting to about 0.00027% of Exxon's 2008 profits of $45 billion—you might think you'd hit upon the scandal of the age. But thanks to what now goes by the name of climategate, it turns out the real scandal lies elsewhere.

Climategate, as readers of these pages know, concerns some of the world's leading climate scientists working in tandem to block freedom of information requests, blackball dissenting scientists, manipulate the peer-review process, and obscure, destroy or massage inconvenient temperature data—facts that were laid bare by last week's disclosure of thousands of emails from the University of East Anglia's Climate Research Unit, or CRU.

But the deeper question is why the scientists behaved this way to begin with, especially since the science behind man-made global warming is said to be firmly settled. To answer the question, it helps to turn the alarmists' follow-the-money methods right back at them.

Consider the case of Phil Jones, the director of the CRU and the man at the heart of climategate. According to one of the documents hacked from his center, between 2000 and 2006 Mr. Jones was the recipient (or co-recipient) of some $19 million worth of research grants, a sixfold increase over what he'd been awarded in the 1990s.

Al Gore wins the 2007 Nobel Peace Prize: Doing well by doing good?

Why did the money pour in so quickly? Because the climate alarm kept ringing so loudly: The louder the alarm, the greater the sums. And who better to ring it than people like Mr. Jones, one of its likeliest beneficiaries?

Thus, the European Commission's most recent appropriation for climate research comes to nearly $3 billion, and that's not counting funds from the EU's member governments. In the U.S., the House intends to spend $1.3 billion on NASA's climate efforts, $400 million on NOAA's, and another $300 million for the National Science Foundation. The states also have a piece of the action, with California—apparently not feeling bankrupt enough—devoting $600 million to their own climate initiative. In Australia, alarmists have their own Department of Climate Change at their funding disposal.

And all this is only a fraction of the $94 billion that HSBC Bank estimates has been spent globally this year on what it calls "green stimulus"—largely ethanol and other alternative energy schemes—of the kind from which Al Gore and his partners at Kleiner Perkins hope to profit handsomely.

Supply, as we know, creates its own demand. So for every additional billion in government-funded grants (or the tens of millions supplied by foundations like the Pew Charitable Trusts), universities, research institutes, advocacy groups and their various spin-offs and dependents have emerged from the woodwork to receive them.
The Climate Emails

Today these groups form a kind of ecosystem of their own. They include not just old standbys like the Sierra Club or Greenpeace, but also Ozone Action, Clean Air Cool Planet, Americans for Equitable Climate Change Solutions, the Alternative Energy Resources Association, the California Climate Action Registry and so on and on. All of them have been on the receiving end of climate change-related funding, so all of them must believe in the reality (and catastrophic imminence) of global warming just as a priest must believe in the existence of God.

None of these outfits is per se corrupt, in the sense that the monies they get are spent on something other than their intended purposes. But they depend on an inherently corrupting premise, namely that the hypothesis on which their livelihood depends has in fact been proved. Absent that proof, everything they represent—including the thousands of jobs they provide—vanishes. This is what's known as a vested interest, and vested interests are an enemy of sound science.

Which brings us back to the climategate scientists, the keepers of the keys to the global warming cathedral. In one of the more telling disclosures from last week, a computer programmer writes of the CRU's temperature database: "I am very sorry to report that the rest of the databases seems to be in nearly as poor a state as Australia was. . . . Aarrggghhh! There truly is no end in sight. . . . We can have a proper result, but only by including a load of garbage!"

This is not the sound of settled science, but of a cracking empirical foundation. And however many billion-dollar edifices may be built on it, sooner or later it is bound to crumble. Write to bstephens@wsj.com



To: LoneClone who wrote (126212)12/6/2009 1:24:01 PM
From: russet28 Recommendations  Respond to of 206089
 
Yes, all Ontario inhabitants are enormously pissed that the kilometer and a half thick glacier that existed on our lands 15000 years ago melted on us and destroyed what would have been our glorious way of life in the ice and snow.

Those farts in the caves undid us all.

I'm always amazed how stupid and ignorant and gullible people are, especially those claiming superior intelligence and knowledge.



To: LoneClone who wrote (126212)12/7/2009 7:54:34 AM
From: dvdw©3 Recommendations  Respond to of 206089
 
you say; "I will go with my own personal observations of receding glaciers, and what I hear from my friends who live in Arctic Canada who are aghast at the rapid changes their surroundings are going through. "

Put your politics to purpose and demand that under sea volcanic activity be stopped...demand that warm super heated salt water currents stop assaulting glacial bases,...demand it, because then and only then will your political contrivance remain un interrupted.

Earlier you said "You have no understanding of how science works"

and SO; do you have an idea of how compartmentalists function?

The variables in the quantum wave equation are multivalued: for every value of x there are a multiplicity of corresponding values for y. Two different notions of identity are involved here, one simple and one complex. An entity with simple-identity, when in motion, carries very little holistic information about the system of which it is a part. An entity with complex-identity, when in motion, carries a large component of holistic information about the system to which it belongs." ....