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To: GROUND ZERO™ who wrote (11223)	10/13/2010 10:33:57 AM
From: robert b furman	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 223120

Hi GZ, I've driven a GM hydrogen car (actually it was an Equinox). The exhaust pipe puffed warm moist ait that smell sweet. Since it is really an electric car it has great power/acceleration. One must keep in mind it has taken years to get E-85 gasohol into the mainstream and it still is not everywhere. Hydrogen fuel stations will take years for infrastructure. All equating to good jobs. Bob

To: GROUND ZERO™ who wrote (11223)	10/13/2010 11:18:21 AM
From: Chip McVickar	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 223120

they're working on the molecular structure of gas... trying to economically divide that which is inert from the combustible... then to combine again within the combustion chamber.

To: GROUND ZERO™ who wrote (11223)	10/13/2010 11:25:53 AM
From: Hawkmoon	1 Recommendation Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 223120

only problem with these electric cars is they're waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over priced, $43K for a Volt is absurd... Actually, the MAJOR problem with these PHEVs (like the Volt) is that the Li-Ion battery has the same problem as the average laptop battery, loss of capacity. The average laptop battery (which is primarily what these PHEVs use, except in greater quantities) lose around 15-20% of their charge capacity every year. That means that the owner can expect to replace the battery pack within 5-6 years, even with specialized control software. Aging of lithium-ion is an issue that is often ignored. A lithium-ion battery in use typically lasts between 2-3 years. The capacity loss manifests itself in increased internal resistance caused by oxidation. Eventually, the cell resistance reaches a point where the pack can no longer deliver the stored energy although the battery may still have ample charge. For this reason, an aged battery can be kept longer in applications that draw low current as opposed to a function that demands heavy loads. Increasing internal resistance with cycle life and age is typical for cobalt-based lithium-ion, a system that is used for cell phones, cameras and laptops because of high energy density. The lower energy dense manganese-based lithium-ion, also known as spinel, maintains the internal resistance through its life but loses capacity due to chemical decompositions. Spinel is primarily used for power tools. batteryuniversity.com And at $15K for the expected replacement cost, that's a hidden cost that most new buyers are not factoring in. Then there's the problem with sources of Lithium. Bolivia is one of the largest sources of Lithium, but it's government is extremely unfriendly to the West. Hawk