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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: No Mo Mo who wrote (169489)	8/18/2011 2:37:21 PM
From: Wharf Rat	Respond to of 542139

I'm glad people are starting to use the "bold" word. We needed extra-hot chili smothered with onions, and he gave us cold oatmeal. We needed Atomic Balm for Xtra Cold Days , and he is offering us used motor oil that's sat around all winter. Who wants to rub used oil on your legs?

To: No Mo Mo who wrote (169489)	8/18/2011 3:10:24 PM
From: Sam	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 542139

From a progressive perspective, he is possibly the most damaging president we've ever had. I so so disagree with that. No one person--even the president--does anything by him/herself. Everyone is done in a context. In national politics, the context for any "Big Rocks" has to be set up over a period of years, even decades. LBJ and Eisenhauer got a weak civil rights bill passed in 1957, and it was widely criticized. BUT-- it was a first step. It helped to change the context in which future debates would take place. The 1964 and 1965 acts were much stronger, and likely would not have been passed without the earlier acts in addition to a great deal of dialogue, sit=ins and marching. Yeah, I think "progressives" are being impatient. And they are being stupid when they blame Obama, as if one guy actually does anything. I think that they don't know how to create contexts and don't appreciate them. The conservatives are running rhetorical circles around them. And rhetorical circles are essential. Whatever else you say about Norquist and the people he represents, they understand cultural memes, how to develop them and how to use them, how they shape the context in which legislation happens. That is what is all important. Without that context, nothing meaningful or lasting ever gets done. Norquist said that he wanted to create an environment in which even a Democratic president couldn't govern in accordance with Democratic priniciples. He is winning so far.

To: No Mo Mo who wrote (169489)	8/18/2011 3:23:03 PM
From: ChinuSFO	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 542139

From a progressive perspective, he is possibly the most damaging president we've ever had. Who says what "progressive" means. It means different things to different people. Liberal is clear enough. But it is the "L" word that the liberals have run away from. Obama has been very much a progressive in that he has balanced the needs of the liberals and the right wing to ensure that the country "progresses" and does not get tied down to some detrimental extreme ideology. He has been true to his campaign promise that this is the United States, not red not blue.

To: No Mo Mo who wrote (169489)	8/18/2011 6:46:19 PM
From: epicure	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 542139

I don't have very progressive friends. They are all just middle of the road liberals. I guess that's why I don't know anyone really unhappy. I don't like fights at my parties, nor do I want to sit and listen to polemics at dinner parties, so if people aren't fairly moderate about politics- we don't invite them back. And I must say, it makes for excellent parties- unless you really like to fight. Then you'd want to go elsewhere. It works so well in 3d, I'm trying to arrange my online life like that as well.