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To: Bill Jackson who wrote (27567)	11/19/1997 2:02:00 PM
From: KVASIR	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 35569

amen...3 Tigers knocked out 54 Russian T-34's in the Battle of Kursk ....18-1 ratio....it took 10 Shermans to knock out one Tiger or Panther.....They had to gang up on one to get him....rounds bounced off the armor like tennis balls....the American tankers called the Sherman the "Bronson Lighter" because it always "lit up" the first time it was struck.....Tigers and Panthers had BMW engines in them, with a very complicated and sophisticated drive gear and transfer case....which became the problem at the outset.....we don't even want to start comparing artillery...Krupp works had no equal.....Charters probably drives one of those Ruskie cars with a 2 cycle lawn mower engine(because they're easy to repair) and cardboard firewall.....makes the YUGO look like a LEXUS.....

To: Bill Jackson who wrote (27567)	11/19/1997 3:07:00 PM
From: E. Charters	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 35569

So that is why Guderian said If I had 1000 T34's I could have won the war. Right. T34 was 25 miles per hour with a day range of 250 miles which it frequently made unlike the panther and the tiger. V12 aluminum diesels started all the time at 50 below with gas preheaters. We can't do that today. The panther had 30% reliability in the cold. Many were left behind when engines froze. Best winter tank. Sherman. Gas engine. Malmedy 100% reliability in winter. The only thing that stopped the T34 was a tank destroyer. the panther's 88 couldn't penetrate the armour at 1000 yds but the 75 mm Russian gun could get the panther. The Germans went to mobile guns by the end of the war. higher crew survival. Something we should have thought about as mobile artillery lives longer. All artillery was radar controlled by 1945 anyway. American tanks like the Bradley in DS-I made 60 miles before sand in the bearings required refitting. If it wasn't for aircraft we would have been cooked. Anyway the tank Patton's forces preferred and the engineers used widely was the D6 with blade lifted. Slow, but frontal armour was impenetrable and it never stopped. You could winter start it too by bleeding injectors and heating fuel. Build a rampart in 5 minutes that no fire could penetrate. Best field gun was the 2 bofors (4 automatic AA 100's, 240 rounds/min 960 lbs of radar fused hi-exp./min.) mounted on a wrecking truck. So much shrapnel per minute the enemy couldn't think. -------------------------------------------------