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Pastimes : And The 7th Angel Sounded -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: O'Hara who wrote (326)7/26/1998 4:59:00 PM
From: O'Hara  Read Replies (5) | Respond to of 609
 
><>...FOR ANYONE INTERESTED IN DOING A COMPLETE STUDY...><>

in the word of God concerning the return of our Lord Jesus.

I would at the beginning like to give a general set of guide line that we should all follow..OK?

Firt and foremost only the word of God should be considered. It doesn't matter what anyone else has ever said, or will say on the on the subject...Only the word of God will be discussed.

I for one know that there have been many books written on the subject of His return, but there is only one book that we are here to consider...The Holy word of God...The Bible.

Let's all just stayed focused on what the Bible has taught on that subject. Let us all keep all emotions and personal attacks out of this discussion, and keep our hearts and minds planted firmly on the word of God only.

We are all brothers and sisters and we all have much to offer one another, so let's please give each other the common courtesy and respect of sincerely reading and trying to understand a serious and on topic post.

As I am in the minority here as one who does not subscribe to the rapture theory... anymore..., I will sincerely attempt to answer every question, from the word of God, that is put to me from all. And I will answer them with love and patience. I will print out and study closely any and all comments realting to the return of Christ, and answer them according to scripture.

I do in turn ask the same of all of you, I too have many questions for you, and what none of us have the answer to, we can all learn it together. We must as students of God's word give all due diligence to just that...His word!, While also giving each other the respect and courtesy each deserves.

There is never any excuse for us to ever get so emotional as to lose sight of why we even came to study this very important issue.

So in closing I would just like to say that I believe we are all mature enough to carry on this study with an open mind, an open heart and above all an.... open Bible.

I will add though, if this study begins to get out of control, as I have seen things get out of control on other threads. I will not be a part of it. God is not the author of confusion.

Love and peace to all...And...
May the Holy Spirit of God be our teacher.
Shalom...><>



To: O'Hara who wrote (326)7/26/1998 5:45:00 PM
From: O'Hara  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 609
 
><>...The Rapture Theory...Is it Written?...><>

For those who may not know what the rapture theory is.

The "rapture theory" as it is taught by some in the Christian church
teaches the following.

That the only way our "All Knowing" and "All
Powerful Father in heaven, God Himself, can protect those who love Him from His
wrath,which is to come upon the world, is to Zap them out of here. The theory teaches that, "only" Christians are good enough to
be Zapped (raptured), and all others will be left behind to be tortured, maimed, and murdered.

It also teaches that a political world leader, used by satan will lead this world into a violent battle against our God.... after the Christians are zapped out... by God!
It also teaches that this world leader will commit his atrocities upon man. They say "he" (whoever he is,even the rapture theorists cannot agree on this one) will be the antichrist.

This theory teaches that all of these atrocities will be going on while the Christians are feasting at the wedding banquet with our Lord Jesus.
The rapture theory teaches that this zapping out of here can happen at any moment.!

The rapture theory teaches many more ideas that cannot be shown in scripture, and in order for the rapture theory to be true the Bible has to be in error.

____________
_____________

Here's what the word of God states on the return of Christ.
2 Thess. 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come except there come a
falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.


In the above scripture Paul was teaching on the return of Christ. He was
setting the record straight. He said the return of our Lord will not happen until:
1. There come a falling away first
and
2. That man of sin first be revealed, the son of perdition.
Paul has even gone so far as to give us the identity of this evil one.

perdition # 684 Strongs Concordance,= Apoleia, ruin or loss, perish, waste from #
622, Apollumi, to destroy fully, perish, the base of 3639

# 3639, Olethros, to destroy, ruin,i.e. death, punishment destruction.

There is "Only One" entity that fits Paul's description of this evil one. There is "Only
One" that has already been judged and condemned to perish. (Ez. 28 vs. 15-19 + Ez.
26 esp. v. 21) The prince of Tryus (Tyrus= rock... the false rock) the false messiah, the
antichrist, satan.

anti, in the Greek # 500 from 473 and 5547...
#473 = Instead of , because of.... Not Against
Christ #5547= Anointed, ie: The Messiah

Antichrist therefore means in this instance, instead of Jesus.... Not someone used by satan to stand
against Jesus, but satan himself (in his own body). He is still up to his same old
deceiving game, trying to be God..... He intends to take the place of our Lord Jesus by
coming disguised as Jesus..... See 2 Thess. 2:4, Also 2 Cor. 11:14, The word
Transformed, #3345 Strongs = disguised.

He is not coming to deceive a world of unbelievers, God knows he has already got them
fooled. He is coming to deceive those who love the Lord.

Look at the word "falling" as in falling away 2Thess. 2:3
#646, Apostasia, defection from the truth, to foresake, same as apostasion, divorce.

It will be the son of perdition who causes this falling away....Who but Christians can fall away? Who but Christians can defect from the truth? Foresake who? Divorce who?
Are Christians not the bride of Christ? Yes, and only Christians can divorce Him.
Christians then, must be here in order for even this to happen.

Christians will be here when the antichrist, satan disguised as Jesus, comes to this earth,
deceiving only those Christians, who can be deceived, into believing that he is Jesus and
has come to "rapture" them away.

The heart of the "rapture theory" is 1 Thess. 4:13-18, look closely at the subject of
these verses, it is "where are the dead". Paul is telling them not to be concerned about
those who have already died and won't be here at the return of our Lord.

v14....because if you believe that Jesus died and rose, so too will they who are already
dead in Jesus (believers). And they will in fact return with Him.

v15.And we who are still alive (in the flesh) and still here at the coming of the Lord
cannot prevent ( precede) them who are already with Him.

prevent #5348, a prime verb; to be beforehand, ie: anticipate or precede, by extension,
to have arrived at:-- ( already) attain,come prevent

v16. For Jesus Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with a
voice of the archangel, and with a trump of God and those who are dead (already with
Him), will in fact rise first. Because they are already there with Him.

v17.then we who are alive and are still here at His coming shall meet Him in the clouds,
to meet the Lord in the air (spirit) and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Air # 109 Strong's, to breath unconsciously,ie: respire by analogy to blow "air" (
spirit)......It is Not the same as:

Air # 3772, (through the idea of elevation) the sky, by extensions the heavens the abode
of God air, heavenly sky.(Atmosphere)

v18. so stop worrying, because those who are dead are already with the Lord, and will
not miss Him at His return.

These nor any other scriptures even hint at the "any moment- Christians only rapture
theory"

End of Part One.




To: O'Hara who wrote (326)7/26/1998 6:20:00 PM
From: O'Hara  Respond to of 609
 
><>...Two process second coming?..IS IT WRITTEN ?...><>

Some scriptures the "rapture theorists" use to back up their claims of a this "two process"
second coming is:

Then two shall be in the field; the one shall be taken and the other left. Matt. 24:40
They say the one taken is taken by God in the rapture.

However,look back at vs.36-39 see the subject matter, always note the subjuct matter . Jesus
was comparing His second coming, (one process, not two) to the days of Noah. Those who
were "taken" were taken by the flood,(which lasted five months), They were ones not in the
Ark!... Gen. 7:24...

Those who will be taken in the last days will be the ones deceived
by satan, the antichrist. Those who were not "taken"in the days of Noah, were in the ark.
It will be no different at the return of our Lord. Today our "ark" is Jesus, the true
Jesus, and HIS word not man's.... There is in-fact, as Jesus taught, going to be another
flood. A flood of lies, a flood of deceit! (Rev. 12:15) This deceitful flood of lies will also
last five months.(Rev. 9;10)

Rapture theorists also use the following choice scriptures to back up their claim of the
"any moment doctrine" (Luke 12:37-40, Matt.24:36-44, and 1 Thess.5:2. All
scriptures which teach of our Lord returning as a thief,are a warning to those who are
no longer waiting for His return! (Those who will when satan appears disguised as Jesus. What Christians are even now no longer waiting for His return to eart? Could it be those who are waiting to be raptured out of here?

(Look at 1 Thess. 5;4) Those who are in darkness will No longer be
waiting for Him because they will believe that He has already returned. They will be
worshipping the false messiah, the wrong Jesus, the antichrist,satan, disguised as Jesus.
They will be doing his work while waiting for him to "rapture" them out of here. He will
be here in his own body (Rev.12:7-12), making peace (Dan. 8:25), and the whole
world will whore after him. (Rev.13:3), all except those who have the seal of God in
their forehead.(Rev. 9:4)

But ye brethren are not in darkness that that day should overtake you as a
thief.1Thess 5:4

That day will not overtake those who know the truth, who know the chronological
order of the end times. Who are aware of two facts,
1.that satan comes first as antichrist
And
2. That they will be here when he does come,disguised as Jesus!

Will you be harvested out of season? I pray not, and I pray that your flight not be in winter.

..blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never
gave suck. Luke 23:29

Compare those words of our Lord to the following: "Woe unto them who are with child,
and to them that give suck in those days. (Matt. 24:19)

Study also the Parable of the ten virgins, (Matt. 25:1) and compare that teaching of our
Lord to (Luke 23:29) and (Matt.24:19) and look very Carefully at the teachings of Paul
in (2 Cor. 11:2). All of Paul's teachings were with that in mind- To present us
Christians as a chaste virgin, a worthy bride to Christ.... A chaste virgin (spirtually)
means a lot more than some Christians have been taught...But I fear said Paul, that satan
also beguile you. Don't be corrupted. Let no man deceive you.

Note the irony of the ten virgins. They were all virgins,(Christians) who were watching
and waiting for their bridegroom, but then WHAM, something went awry, and half of
those Christians were shut out of heaven.... more specifically the wedding supper of the
Lamb! In short Jesus was teaching that the foolish half ran out of oil(truth).

And what about the "barren" why are the "blessed"? And why "woe" to them that are
with child? ....... The barren are those who did not run out of oil(truth), they were
waiting for the true Messiah, they had not defiled, nor deceived , they did not sleep with
the enemy. They had remained virgins. They kept themselves for the true bridegroom,
the true Messiah. They had not worshipped the false Christ,the wrong Jesus, the
antichrist, satan disguised as Jesus. They had remained virgins, they had not been
spiritually impregnated, they were not deceived, not beguiled nor corrupted, (not with child). Blessed
are the barren.

One must understand that only those who know the truth, and the chronological order of
end time events,( those with the seal of God in their forehead), and still do worship the
antichrist,have sealed their fate to condemnation. All others will certainly not be worthy
to attend the wedding banquet of Our Lord, but will in-fact be taught the real truth and
real discipline in the millennium Ez 44-48

This is why God our loving Father provided
the 1000 yr. reign of Christ.!... At which time satan will be bound, so that his evil
deceitful ways will not influence them during the teaching (Rev 20:3). At the end of the
millennium satan will then be loosed in order to test and deceive those who he
might.Those who cannot be deceived at this time will in-fact experience the second
ressurection.
____________
____________
The first resurrection is of those who will not be deceived the first time, while on earth,
and will not worship the antichrist. They are the ones who will attend the Marriage
Supper Of The Lamb. But the rest(Rev 20:5-6) those who did not know the truth
because of false teachings and a variety of other reasons, and who will be deceived
while on earth, and do worship the anti christ, instead of attending the wedding feast,
will have to go through the millennium,being taught the difference between the profane
and the holy, the clean and the unclean (Ez 44 v23)It is this group that did not take part
in the first resurrection, that may, if they are not deceived at the end of the
millennium,take part in the second resurrection.

Those who do not experience the second resurrection at the end of the millennium,
because of being once again deceived by satan when he is loosed, will then at that
time, experience the second death, the death of the soul. (Rev 20:11-15).

THE FIRST DEATH: Is of the flesh, we must all die once (Heb.9: 27) and that will
happen to all who are still alive, at the 7th trump, 1Cor. 15:51-52 ALL changed from
flesh to spirit, ALL flesh will at this time die.

THE SECOND DEATH: Is of the soul.(Rev. 20:14)although we have changed from
flesh to spirit, some souls are still mortal, and liable to die, at the last day of the
millennium, on judgement day. Some will immediately be resurrected, at the start of the
millennium

THE FIRST RESURRECTION: Is of those while still in the flesh body,and on earth when the antichrist is also here, and do
overcome.The first Resurrection occurs simultaneously with the 7th trump (Rev.
20:4-6).

THE SECOND RESURRECTION:Is of those who although they do not overcome
while in the flesh on earth, because they will in-fact worship the antichrist,may in fact
experience the second resurrection.
Many of them, however, will not experience even this, the second resurrection.
if they are once again deceived by satan at the end of the millennium. (Rev.20:7-8)
The second Resurrection occurs at the end of the millennium



To: O'Hara who wrote (326)7/26/1998 6:47:00 PM
From: O'Hara  Respond to of 609
 
><>...So how will satan deceive Christians?...><>

Mark 13:22-23
22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to
seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
_______
_______

First:, satan is the most beautiful of God's creations. Ez.28:19

So where did we ever get such an ugly picture of a monster? Not from the word of
God!

Hollywood has painted this beautiful cherub as a monster. Hollywood gave him his big
sharp fangs, long pointed ears, bulging purple eyes. Hollywood is the one who painted
his skin a burning charcoal red, and of-course let us not forget the pointed horns
protruding from his ugly head. Hollywood has also given him his menacing pitchfork
which he holds in his scrawny claws with 6 inch long filth filled finger nails.

Man in his own imaginations has created this vile, Deceiving image. And now even,
when our own brothers and sisters, followers of the Lord Jesus, speak of satan, this is
the deceiving image that they conjure up. Millions have already been Deceived! Have
they been set up? Is the stage set?

It is quite easy to accept that this ugly monster image, is the face of evil, but our Father has told us differently. Whose report will you believe? (Ezekiel 28 esp. vs. 13-19)

Secondly: He will come in peace and prosperity.( Daniel 8:25)
You bet he will! If he came hostile and violently who would he be deceiving into
believing that he was God?..That is what he will be claiming.

In short, satan will not look the way Hollywood and the rest of the world has painted
him. He will appear as God has created him, in perfect beauty. This vile enemy of God
will be putting on the best performance of his existence (Rev. 12:12) and the world will
be his captive audience. In an attempt to usurp the kingdom of God, by standing in the
Temple of God, (2Thess. 2:4) (Matt.24:15) (Daniel 11:31-33), he will arrogate the
people of God in a "deceitful" manner, showing signs and wonders as the world has
never before seen!

The deceit will be so great that the falling away-the apostacy. will be a cinch

There is nothing that satan wants more than to take to himself the throne of God, and the children of God.... He cannot take the throne of God, for God will not allow that to
happen, and he certainly cannot deceive those children of God who heed the warnings
of our Lord Jesus the Christ. They are the children of God who know the chronological order of God's perfect plan, and finally, they are those who do not allow the "rapture doctrine to distract them for God's word.

The rapture theory does not line up with the written word of God, quite the contrary.
It teaches indirectly, for Christians to accept the first messiah, the antichrist, satan himself disguised as Jesus.

Search for yourself the truth of God by studying "His word". Empty your mind of the traditions of man.

The return of our Lord Jesus Christ is written in the word of God, not in the books of
men! We must look to God's word so that we may know what is expected of us.

Come out of her, Jesus warned, and be not deceived. For the love of God!.. come out
of her!

Matt 24:26
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold,
he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Study (His word) to show thyself approved unto God.! Let us all do just that.
Thank you Father for your Word, and forgive us that we use another's as truth and light. May Your Holy Spirit forever more be our only guide to your truths!