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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Carol who wrote (17867)	3/2/1998 10:12:00 PM
From: j g cordes	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

That was sensitive of you Carol.. poverty in this country in particular needn't be the polar extreme to Eisner or Warren Buffet. The incentive system of working to accumulate and spend as a form of self and social achievement excludes from society's experience any non-financally motivated vision of life the poor have. Buddha would slip right through our fingers... Jim

To: Carol who wrote (17867)	3/2/1998 11:50:00 PM
From: Grainne	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

Carol, you are quite right to point out that religious organizations do enormous good in helping the homeless. They pitch in selflessly to fill in the huge gaps left by governmental programs, and offer spiritual hope and solace as well. I think what you may have missed in my reply was a longstanding objection that I have to members of the religious far right in America, who believe that homosexuality is a sin. When I saw the segment on 60 Minutes about young homosexuals on Sunday night, it cited the statistics that 30% of all teenagers who commit suicide in America are gay, and that fully one quarter of all parents of young homosexuals throw them out of the house immediately when they confide in their parents that they are gay. I think it got me all upset again. I feel like this is such a huge human tragedy, when the developing body of research shows that most children know when they are tiny that they are gay, and homosexuality stems from genetic and early developmental factors. In other words, this is not a lifestyle choice. What rational human being would choose to be in a position where he or she is teased, harassed, often beaten, put into the position of social misfit? It upsets me when people have their noses stuck so far up into the Bible, interpreting it so strictly, that they just cause hurt and do harm and have totally lost touch with Jesus' real teachings, which were to love and accept the poor and the damaged and the outcast. When even the current Pope, who is not known particularly as a liberal, can realize all of this and call upon Catholics to love and accept their gay children as they are, and yet these conservative, judgmental Christians still choose to cast their own children aside, I do have an objection to that. The tie-in with homelessness is that in San Francisco we have mild weather, a socially tolerant and compassionate climate, and outreach programs for runaway gay teenagers who are thrown away by their families. Most of these children come here and end up on the street, selling their bodies to buy food, and a lot of them end up on drugs to kill the pain. I simply cannot fathom anyone who would kick their child out of their family because they are gay, and this is a cause of homelessness, and death, for teenagers. We are talking sometimes about children as young as twelve here. It is simply incomprehensible to me that a parent could treat a child like that. Sorry to be so heavy, but this is one subject where I do drag the soapbox out, because I think it is so important. Chrissy

To: Carol who wrote (17867)	3/3/1998 2:45:00 AM
From: greenspirit	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

Carol, yes I believe you did miss something which was very obvious. Stereotyping Christians and believing that they are so intolerant of the gay lifestyle that they kick their children out into the street is bigotry in the worst kind. Citing some ridiculous statistics that one quarter of the 30% of homeless children in San Fransisco are there because there families were christian and kicked them out is pure popycock! Let's see that leaves well over 70% who were not christian and on the street. I guess that means they came from atheists or Wicca households huh? What a crock! I've never walked the streets of San Francisco, but I have walked the streets of Seattle and Bremerton many times, and I can tell you the children are not there because they came from Christian households who thought they were gay. Children are far more likely to be on the streets and homeless because they came from broken homes, where one or both of the parents are alcoholics and or drug dependant than Christians. It's to bad that every time an interesting conversation develops Christine feels the need to turn it into her personal vendetta against Christianity. Christians are far more likely to be the ones walking the streets at night trying to help the homeless children than any other group of people. If you don't believe me, I encourage you to join the local chapter of "Stand Up for Kids" and find out for yourself. standupforkids.org Michael