SI
SI
discoversearch

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor.  We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community.  If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.
Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Grainne who wrote (19165)3/24/1998 7:59:00 PM
From: Kid Rock  Respond to of 108807
 
Christine,

I'm sure you'll get pooped on by many for some of the things that you said but I have to say - you said it well.

Tom



To: Grainne who wrote (19165)3/24/1998 9:08:00 PM
From: O'Hara  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 108807
 
><>...Evening Christine...><>

You said:
I think that much of the hatred of
them here comes from very, very conservative Christians who have misinterpreted the
New Testament, and are very narrow and judgmental, and full of hate.


Many say that they are christians, but just knowing the word of God is not a true test! Many non christians study the Bible in order to stand behind it and use it for a shield to justify their heartless actions.... Many know the words of the Bible..but do not know the God of the Bible.

Hate and intolerance is not a misinterpretation of the NT...OR...The OT, no one could ever, even mistakenly, misinterpret the love and complete tolerance that my LORD Jesus had for all, even in His anger at some. The hate and intolerance you speak of is the manifestation of the desires of the heart. Not related at all to the teachings of Christ!

One of the teachings of my LORD Jesus concerning eating without washing ones's hands;
Matt 15:7-11
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?
13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
15 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.
16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

So how can a christian be recognized

Matt 7:16-24
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

Hope this helps Christine

Have a good evening
Shalom...><>



To: Grainne who wrote (19165)3/24/1998 9:25:00 PM
From: Zoltan!  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 108807
 
I despise Velveets - lack character and too homogenous. And the color is sickening.

I especially despise the national anthem sung in the native Esperanto:

Don't cry for me, Velveeta!. (Eng. trans.)

Even worse than those rotten Philistines.



To: Grainne who wrote (19165)3/24/1998 11:39:00 PM
From: Alan Markoff  Respond to of 108807
 
Dear Christine,That was one of the most thoughtful, kind posts I have read on SI. Thank you for listening and caring. I mention the American Indians because the struggle for land is not pleasant and is never fair. The Jews have traditionally been a very non agressive group that has endured horrendous persecutions for thousands of years, however the holocaust was the point that made them say this is enough we have to go home. I know there are allot of arguements as to who was where first but the reality is that both the Jews and the Palestenians have a long history in that land. I have different reports than you have of events over there and I am sure the
truth is somewhere between what both groups present. I do know the Jews were buying allot of land from Palestine right after the war and the UN considered there large ownership in awarding the State to them, but beyond that I will not defend what I am not educated on. Have you heard of the boats of Jews floating in the Ocean from the Concentration camps and being refused by most countries so they sailed to Israel where they sat off shore will many died of starvation because of having no place to go after 12
years of the worst oppression in history, Believe me many Jews were
somewhat angry and bitter to a whole world that for the most part sat
silent while they were exterminated. I do not condone any acts of violence on there part but I realize I do not give up my home for the American Indians even though I know I should for justice sake so I am not worthy to judge their decisions. When people say they are just throwing rocks they need to see what a few rocks can do to a person. In most cases they are just as deadly and more painful than a gun. If we had people throwing rocks at the police here what do you think would happen? I always try to remember there are 2 sides to every situation and some of these are very complexed and we get biased information as we live here. The giving of money to Israel is mostly past tense George Bush put a halt on it and it has been very minimal since. Ronald Reagan was the big contributor to Israel. Besides they gave because they were the most stable area in the middle East in their quest for Oil and world control. Our Empire is so
established on greed that there is usually a motive behind all
generosity.You are right that Jesus would love you as I do even though we may not agree I am interested in learning from all and trying to demonstrate Jesus to all people. In 1 John in the Bible it says if you say you love God and hate the man He has created you are a liar and a hypocrit and there is no love in you. This is a very strong statement for it does not say to love only Christians and those that believe as you do but just to love all men God has created. Therefore when a person says they are a Christian and hate people I consider them hypocrites and liars. Thank you again for your thoughtful post and your warm personality, and may the Lord bless you in everyway, with His peace, His Presence and most of all His love, Nancy



To: Grainne who wrote (19165)3/25/1998 1:03:00 AM
From: greenspirit  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 108807
 
Christine, the far left can be just as polarizing. They try to force their belief's through the obfuscation of laws on people who do not want their children indoctrinated in such way's.

The teaching of homosexuality as a "just as good lifestyle", the teaching of sex education, the socialistic left wing environmental indoctrination, the removal of competition in our schools, the class warfare waged against the successful in our society, and much more.
Are all part of a moral belief system sprung from ideologically closed minds. The fact that they are not true, or that they don't work, is never addressed in a legitimate way. The fact that the far left feeeels it to be true is all that is required.

Many things can be thought of as taking a "moral stand". The term used to describe "free thinkers" actually describes a people's value system which is far from free. It is rooted in socialistic principles which have been shown to lead people to economic stagnation, and hopeless despair.

This is the key idea which I feel you have yet to truly understand.

The far left have been trying to silence free speech for years through the Leninistic ritual known as "Political Correctness". To ignore their role in formenting intolerance is to ignore the truth.

I ask you to look closely at who is trying to force their belief's on others. It may be partly the far right, but they have been far less successful than the far left. The far left want to silence free speech, control smoking, gun ownership, drinking, the medical system, the schools system, the military, business and every government institution through the constant and relentless raising of our taxes for the supposed good of us all.

It is criminal how much the average American now has to pay in taxes as compared to 30 years ago. Yet all the far left want to keep doing is start some new program, save another spotted owl, or spend another 6 billion dollars and pretend to do something about Global Warming.

It is not the far right who is asking the rest to pay for their belief system. It is the far left "free thinkers" who want the right to pay for millions of abortions a year, sex education classes which do not work, environmental policies which waste billions, and a public school system resistant to meaningful reform.

Michael



To: Grainne who wrote (19165)3/25/1998 10:11:00 PM
From: Dwight E. Karlsen  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 108807
 
Hmmmmm...Christine, re

I have noticed some of these hate mongers on the Web when I have done research on religious topics, and they make me sick, quite frankly.

That figures that that hate mongers would show up when you do religious searches. What does that tell us? I hope I don't have to spell it out.

What it is, I think, is that in most religions there are groups of very polarized conservatives within that belief system who have decided that their way is the One True Way, and that everyone else is evil, or at least lost and ignorant, who does not believe the same way.

Oh. I see. Does it bother you, Christine, that a Jew may see you as "lost" (as in spiritually lost, according to the religious beliefs of a Jew), and ignorant (as in ignorant of the beliefs that a Jew would have)? Or that a Muslim may consider a Jew to be "lost" and ignorant? Or that a Buddist may consider a Christian to be lost and ignorant? I'm sure there are many people of all sorts of religions who may believe that I, for instance, may be lost, in the sense that I may not believe the same things they do. I guess it's never occured to me before that some people might be bothered by that.

These radical conservatives within religions are the people who cause hatred and violence in America, Northern Ireland, India, Israel and every other place where there are religious wars of some sort going on.

Oh. Of course. The religious war in America. Like those Jonesboro, Arkansas shootings, probably. Is that the war you mean? Silly me, I didn't realize there was a religious war going on in America. But at any rate, I think it's clear that Christians bear some responsibility there for those tragic deaths of those little girls. The boys who did the shootings? Their parents probably didn't love them. But we can't punish the boys for that. Those boys just need a lot of love and affection. They didn't know what they were doing. Maybe they thought they were doing the bidding of what this "largely Christian" society taught them to do. They should be made wards of the State, and given private tutors and a free college education.

Many of them are Christians, incidentally, although that does not have much to do with anything.

Well, I wouldn't go that far. There're undoubtedly several conservative Christians mixed in there with the other more tolerant ones. Watch your back when walking around there.

And all the Jewish statesmen of Israel until Netanyahu are admitted terrorists, but they see themselves as freedom fighters because they see their position as the morally defensible one.

Who could condone terrorism?

While I don't personally condone violence of any kind, we will have terrorists until we examine the root causes of their struggle, and somehow remove the inherent injustice. Terrorism is a natural reaction everywhere for groups who have been hurt badly and feel powerless, and feel they have no alternatives to get attention, or right the scales of justice.

Ohhh, okay. So you're saying the Statesmen of Israel prior to Netanyahu were struggling against "the inherent injustice", which was the "root causes of their struggle". And terrorism was the "natural reaction everywhere for groups who have been hurt badly and feel powerless, and feel they have no alternatives to get attention, or right the scales of justice.

If you say so, Christine. So we should try to examine the injustices the Jews are suffering from at the hands of the Arabs? Okay.

I firmly support full human rights for Jews everywhere in the world, and I think they were treated horrendously by the Christians for hundreds of years.

Really? Wow. Like, where's the justice? I wonder if Clinton knows about this. Maybe we could, for instance, bomb a few more German cities a few more times until your righteous wrath is sated. How many more burning piles of German bodies in the streets of cities that the USAF bombed will it take for your wrath to be quenched?

I think that much of the hatred of them here comes from very, very conservative Christians who have misinterpreted the New Testament, and are very narrow and judgmental, and full of hate. As I said before, I think that is just awful.

Of course. That goes without saying. Some conservative Christians are probably brought up by their religious parents to hate Jews. I haven't personally ever heard of any, but then my circle of conservative Christians only covers about 10,000 people in the US and Scandinavia. No doubt I'm sheltered.

Wouldn't it be ironic if all the Christians who practice intolerance and hatred and self-righteousness are actually on their way to Hell?

Yeah, that'd be funny!! Yuck yuck. Burn in hell, man.

I think you and Emile have should have full religious freedom to believe whatever you want,

Christine, that's very tolerant and generous of you, but the founding Fathers of the United States of America already thought of that, and have GUARANTEED religious freedom in the first issue mentioned in the Bill of Rights. So, like, it's already taken care of.

..but somehow the polarization and hurt on the planet have to stop, and TOLERANCE seems to be where that starts.

Well, except tolerance towards conservative Christians, of course. Let's not get too carried away with our liberal compassion.