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Technology Stocks : IFMX - Investment Discussion -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Charles Hughes who wrote (10182)4/7/1998 8:52:00 AM
From: investorgal  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 14631
 
Chaz,

I love your response regarding the "downgrading" of the technical talent in the industry. Ever look around the valley at how many people live in a 2 bedroom apartment? No, it's not just that housing is very high, the salaries are not equitable with the work anymore. As you said, much is outsourced, either directly overseas or by "agencies" who bring lots of people in to work at lower salaries. It has nothing to do with the location. The salaries in the valley are almost the same as those in Chicago, Austin & NY.

I guess you pushed the right button with me. It's why I decided to get out of that part of the industry. It's been quite rewarding too. But the trend is clear and eventually, things will catch up.

Cheers.



To: Charles Hughes who wrote (10182)4/7/1998 11:22:00 AM
From: seth thomas  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 14631
 
Sorry, Charlie

You just pushed a few of my buttons. I totally disagree with your perspective about senior programmers being cast aside, not being paid enough, etc. I recently left as CEO of a software company. Maybe it's different where you are, but here in the Valley, most of our developers made over $80K - some were over $100K - plus options. My best guess is that those options should make many of them millionaires.

Age and seniority had nothing to do with it. In fact, most companies would prefer to hire more mature developers - their experience is very valuable.

However, and this is the big one - these developers must have the killer attitudes, the desire to work long hours, the ability to listen, the desire to keep learning, etc. Most importantly, they need the technical skills - the latest technology is what we use, and if you don't know it, you're not gonna get into the club.

A good friend of mine is well over 40, but acts like a 25 year old whenit comes to work. He is a killer C++ jock, and makes well into 6 figures. He works the hours, and doesn't hide inside a bureacracy. And, he's married, has kids, etc. He has an ISDN line at home, so he puts the extra hours in after the kids go to bed.

the biggest problem that managers have today is finding and recruiting talented people. Age and seniority has nothing to do with anything. Talent and attitude does.

Did you know that out here, companies are setting up recruiting tents at concerts and fairs? Recruiters are going on beaches at Spring break, trying to find candidates? There are hundreds of ads in the Sunday San Francisco and San Jose papers begging for technical people? I stopped by a job fair a few weeks ago to say hi to a friend - and there were over 300 companies desperately trying to find technical employees?

Frankly, in my experience as a board member of several software companies and as a CEO, the "overseas engineers" are incredibly talented and motivated and hungry. They do not expect a big paycheck as their birthright - they work for it and they are good.

You sound like a union guy working for an American car manufacturer in the 1970's, whining about Japanese cars.

Yes, if I had a choice between two people who were otherwise equal, and were widely disparate in their salary requirements, I'd go for the less expensive one. If you had a choice between two televisions that were about the same in quality, yet were different in cost, which would you pick?

Your attitude about "saving american families" and "only experienced American programmers can produce quality" is the classic protectionist, ignorant, close-minded approach so many people take when the world is changing and they don't want to change.

I have built teams of developers who come from everywhere - Russia, Japan, Korea, PRC, ROC, Australia, UK, India, Belgium, Vietnam, Singapore, Hong Kong, and even the good ol' US of A. Heritage was menaingless to me - what mattered was willingness to learn, to work very, very hard, to be loyal, to try new things, to be part of a team, to make a sacrifice or two, and of course, skill and knowledge.

Ah, one or two other comments, Chuckie:

your profile indicates you live in the Bay Area - you should know most of this stuff. How you could be here and have trouble finding a technical job is beyond me unless you are "holding out" for the "perfect" job, aren't willing to be flexible about location, etc. (I recently had an engineering candidate tell me that one of the reasons that she was not interested in a job at another firm was that she didn't like the direction her cube was oriented - to each his/her own, I guess, but don't expect to be too successful if you are a head case).

and, most companies are now very willing to explore telecommuting from remote cities, particularly if you are good, or are willing to work for 6 months at HQ, prove your value, and then live in another location.

Also, the bigger companies are setting up large operations in other cities, recognizing that there can be issues in the Valley. IFMX, for example, has a shop in Kansas. Sun has operations in Denver and Boston. Look at the help wanted ads.

Mostly, you need to get an attitude adjustment. I'm sure it shows up in your resume and interviews.