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To: seth thomas who wrote (10194)	4/7/1998 12:19:00 PM
From: Lizzie Tudor	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 14631

Steven Farber, My point is simply this. I am a director at Oracle trying to hire 1 manager for 100K and 5 developers for 80K. No problem getting the manager. But the 5 developers, forget it! Why is that? Because the developers are all worth 3 times on the open market (as consultants) what we are trying to pay them. The free market in action. Now there are a number of reasons why developers are worth more than mgmt in ERP. Having had both positions myself I will say that the development jobs are more difficult than the mgmt job, that is until you get to the director or VP level. For almost every other situation I can think of in this country, including baseball players, we have let the free mkt decide what people are worth. Oh except for high-tech workers. Come on. My point about pay was not directed at your company for a number of reasons, one of which is that I don't think you are in ERP. I was just trying to say that paying programmers 'what everybody else gets' is hardly what I'd call exceptional pay. And for all that are interested, my Kenya/Tanzania safari and Amazon vacations went well. Michelle

To: seth thomas who wrote (10194)	4/7/1998 12:33:00 PM
From: frank doolittle	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 14631

Give-em hell Steve. The name of the game is free enterprise. Supply and Demand. If people are not available for $80k, they are not available for $150k, its that simple. Mediocrity has become the name of the game in the good ole USA. Those that want to excel have more than enough opportunity and age has nothing to do with it. Every University in the US has recuiters beating their doors in every qtr looking for talent, and from what I have seen, have no problem offering the big bucks plus bonuses. I have many, many friends over 50 who have "retired" in the software business and are now making more than they ever dreamed possible doing free lance contract work. When we educate the world that lawyers, unions, and those that bitch and moan constantly don't carry their load, one will find we will have a better place to live. In closing, I also believe that women who carry their load can demand and get the big bucks that men get. This comes from personal experience.