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Pastimes : SI Grammar and Spelling Lab -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Rick Slemmer who wrote (1309)	5/22/1998 1:48:00 PM
From: Lady Lurksalot	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 4711

RS, I was taught many moons ago, by three of the greatest grammar mavins of all time, that punctuation marks ALWAYS go INSIDE the quotation marks, with one obscure exception which I have long forgotten. Even if only one word is set off in quotes, if it is used in a context that requires it to be followed by punctuation, such punctuation is placed inside the quotation marks. I am in complete agreement with you re the context in which you used "which." In the Forbes article you cite, starting that sentence with "which," cries for a question mark to end that "sentence," not a period. Think about that one. Holly

To: Rick Slemmer who wrote (1309)	5/22/1998 2:30:00 PM
From: jbe	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 4711

Yes, Rick, I thought a little resuscitation effort was in order. Now, to your questions. 1) Period inside or outside of the second quotation mark? Ah, you have hit on an area where I am guilty of betraying my principles! My guru in everything grammatical was the (original) Fowler, author of The King's English. Addressing the question in that work, Fowler pointed out that "it is really difficult to arrive at a perfectly logical system." He then proceeded to lay down the rules for what he considered to be "the best attainable" system, while warning the reader that "it is not the system now in fashion." One of Fowler's rules was that "true stops" (i.e., periods, commas, semi-colons, colons) should never stand before the second quotation mark except in certain limited cases (which he outlined). One Fowlerian example of correct usage is as follows: "We hear that 'whom the gods love die young', and thenceforth we collect the cases that illustrate it." (How I used to love his examples!) Well, for years & years I followed the Fowler system. But as time went on, it grew even more out of fashion. In fact, it began to appear positively quaint. In any event, I got horribly tired of all my editors taking my periods and commas and putting them inside the final quotation mark. And so I gave in (when writing for publication). You have inspired me to stand up for my principles again! Logic alone, for example, demands that the period, which ends the whole sentence, not just the quoted part of it, should stand after the final quotation mark. Now, that disposed of, on to question #2. You object to the sentence: "Roberts is academically astute, witty, and wealthy. Which explains the large sculpture in his closet." Your rewriting of the sentence is, of course, absolutely correct, from the grammatical point of view. It should read "Roberts is....wealthy, which explains the large scultpure in his closet." The phrase beginning with which is not a complete sentence, and hence should not stand alone. That is certainly what you would want your child to be taught in English class. However, what we are dealing with here is a rhetorical device, normally used only in oral delivery, and here translated to the printed page. It is a device that I will even confess to having used in my own writing! Think of it as deriving from comic stage dialogue, with the emphasis placed precisely on the lowly connective "which": Actor: Roberts is astute, witty, and wealthy.....[pregnant pause]...WHICH explains the large sculpture in his closet. Actually, it doesn't explain the large sculpture in his closet -- why, for example, is it in his closet, and not on display in his living room? This is a classic comic device, designed to lead you on....to the rest of the "story." It is not a device I would recommend that schoolchildren try, however. They'd get red-pencilled for writing incomplete sentences -- and rightly so. jbe