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To: Patrick Slevin who wrote (44371)	6/2/1998 12:19:00 AM
From: Tom Trader	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 58727

>>I'm tired of being a target for people who wish to lay American history's low points points at my doorstep<< Patrick, I can see why you would be aggrieved by this, though the reality is that this tends to happen to different races/ethnic groups who have the upper hand at any point in time. It is ironical that you, given your Irish heritage, would be maligned in this way. I often end up being targeted for criticism because when I hear vitriolic criticism by minorities against white Americans especially as it relates to racism, I tend to be rather impatient -- not because there is no racism in the US but because the magnitude of racism/discrimination in many other countries is so much greater -- except that in those countries, somehow it is accepted as the norm. When this happens, I give specific instances of how the country of origin of the accuser is guilty of the same thing. Take the attacks against the Chinese in Indonesia recently, the slurs against African Americans by Japanese officials, the tribal warfare in Rwanda, the expulsion of Indians in Uganda, the officially sanctioned discrimination against non-Malays in Malaysia, the "ethnic cleansing" that the Bosnians suffered, the subtle but still existent discrimination against the Irish within Britain, the caste system in India, the discrimination against non-Muslims in Pakistan, and so on. Somehow the residents and in some instances the victims of this discrimination find this to be a reality of life that one has to put up with but when it comes to any discrimination in the US, there is a sensitivity that is difficult to fathom given the lack of sensitivity when it is encountered in other countries. I recall the protests by Hispanic groups when one of the recent episodes of Seinfeld was deemed to be offensive to Puerto Ricans. Yet a few years ago, a lady of Colombian origin who I employed as a housekeeper, was very vocal about the treatment that was meted out to her, as a Colombian, in Mexico. Perhaps in some ways it is a testament to the strength of this country that this sort of ill-treatment/discrimination, real or imagined, is viewed as unacceptable in the US. There is a tendency among the less urbane element in this country to view anyone who is not white or black to be a "foreigner". It brings to mind an incident that occurred some years ago when I was lunching with a white executive from another company and accompanying me was a Japanese-American lady who worked for me. To my acute embarassment but not to his--he asked this lady -- who was born and brought up here and spoke impeccable English-- which country she was from -- she answered rather chagrined that she was from the US. The only other question that he asked her was which restaurant she would recommend for good Japanese food!! For my part, as I said before I feel fortunate to be living in the US --despite all of its flaws, it is a great country--and every time I go abroad and return to the US, I develop a greater appreciation for this country. However, I do not agree with anyone who takes the position that someone resident in the US does not have the right to voice criticism against the US -- unless he or she is born here. I think that approach seems antithetical to the essence of what this country is all about. Immigration has been one of the critical elements in the success that the US has achieved--the absorption of new blood and the vibrancy that it brings. It has brought opportunity to the immigrants and has enriched the country whether it was the Irish and European influx early this century or the more recent influx of Asians. Check out the award winners of national competitions --spelling bees, Westinghouse awards, etc and you'll see that recent immigrants have been a significant factor in these competitions. And it is these very people who will one day be among the leaders of this country in various facets of life. Having lived in England for many years, the marked contrast that is apparent to me is that first generation immigrants to the UK seemed to be there for economic/educational reasons but their loyalty was to the country of their origin. In the US, I find that the primary loyalty of most immigrants, after living here for some years, seems to be to the US. As for myself, the day that I feel that I am unable to voice my criticism of any aspect of life in the US, would be the day that I feel that I am no longer welcome here--this has never happened to me to date. I reflected a bit after lisa posted her all encompassing comment about going back to "my country". I am not sure where I would go to if some one told me to go back to my own country ---- given my hybrid roots and since I consider the US to be my country -- and inherent in that is loyalty to this country and the freedom to criticize what I feel to be wrong about the country. Anyway, that's it from me on this subject -- at least for today:)

To: Patrick Slevin who wrote (44371)	6/2/1998 2:49:00 AM
From: ratan lal	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 58727

Patrick What are your feeling towrds the British ?? I ask because I go thru cycles of anger towards them till I go there and see the problems they have with all their past subjects on their land. ANd then of course I get a feeling of justice. A feeling that says they are now paying the price for all their crimes against others on their lands. I hate to admit it but I also feel sympathetic towrds their problems which will just not go away till a couple of generations learn to live and let live. And now the poor queen is not even liked by many of her subjects because of the tremendous support that the princess garnered during her tenure and even in her death. And to add insult to injury, the last time she visited India and Pakistan, both countries reminded her of the british atrocities and asked for the return of the jewels that the british stole, specially the the Kohinoor diamond. Maybe ok for a normal person but the queen is not used to being treated in such a manner.