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Strategies & Market Trends : Canadian Options -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Porter Davis who wrote (1044)6/2/1998 7:59:00 PM
From: Dave.S  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1598
 
Porter:

I am very sorry to hear that the TSE has gone to this extreme to keep you from expressing your comments about what is going on.

Your response is perfectly understandable and is the wisest choice.

You are a rare person to stand up against an organization which is increasingly being run for the big banks and ignores the needs of the public.

We will miss your comments and honesty.

Dave



To: Porter Davis who wrote (1044)6/2/1998 9:46:00 PM
From: Jan Johnstone  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 1598
 
Seems sort of a drastic over reaction on part of the TSE. I guess much of what you said had to be true. Surely, they have bigger battles than being concerned about verbal exchanges on some obscure internet discussion group.

Speaking for myself, P.D., I'd like to see you around. Perhaps avoid areas that the TSE are sensitive about. Dave S. seems to be Mr.Clean(no offence intended, Dave).

Please turn the lights back on, dimmed but not out.

Jan



To: Porter Davis who wrote (1044)6/2/1998 10:37:00 PM
From: thebeach  Respond to of 1598
 
Porter,I have read every one of your posts and you have broken no laws from what I have seen.I hope you choose to challenge these people for they are harrassing you and I am sure you could get a few good lawyers to help you out.Good luck in either decision you make but I hope you come out swinging, because it is about time the little guy stands up and gets counted in this great country of ours.Lawyers do not run this country and they never will. I am with you all the way Porter.



To: Porter Davis who wrote (1044)6/3/1998 2:26:00 AM
From: Kitskid  Respond to of 1598
 
Defamatory material?

I guess the TSE powers that be have more commitment to free enterprise than free speech. Can one really exist without the other? Which is more important??
You shouldn't have to go undercover to report your erudite observations.
The TSE are really stinging and they know the veracity of your posts!

Hope they fail to silence you!



To: Porter Davis who wrote (1044)6/3/1998 9:18:00 AM
From: Patrick Laflamm  Respond to of 1598
 
Porter,
We will miss your very insightful comments.

You can always come back and visit us under "The voice", "Mr. D" or some other name... if it is not against SI rules of course...

Regards,

Pahww



To: Porter Davis who wrote (1044)6/3/1998 1:22:00 PM
From: notredame  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1598
 
To Patrick McDonagh - Pass this up to your boss

The TSE is a low class operation, and we all know it.

Two major frauds in the last two years. I think Roland Fleming will pay with his career.

Good bye Rolly, we won't miss your sorry snivelling. Good luck trying to find a job. Better try the golden arches.

Porter, I enjoy your posts very much. Please stay and offer what you can.



To: Porter Davis who wrote (1044)6/3/1998 4:18:00 PM
From: Zardoz  Respond to of 1598
 
"stop publishing defamatory material"

Don't leave, just don't publish the TSE defamatory material. Have they silenced you on your equity market comments as well?

You have taught US all so much.
Thanks.



To: Porter Davis who wrote (1044)6/3/1998 8:11:00 PM
From: Terry Maloney  Respond to of 1598
 
Live long and prosper, Porter! ;)

Best regards,
Terry



To: Porter Davis who wrote (1044)6/3/1998 10:42:00 PM
From: nina  Respond to of 1598
 
Hey Porter!
Please don't disappear completely. Hutch is so right ...we have all learnt so much from you. Although I do not participate on SI or this thread since I am not an options trader I have always from the good ol' Bre-X calamity days made a stop every night on this thread. Mostly 'cause I loved the "black" humour but also because it is truly one of the few places on the net where you could get an insight into the Canadian market and your contribution and commentaries were truly helpful to us rookies.
So Porter...just re-invent yourself...re-incarnations are not that difficult on SI....so long as you're having fun here.
Whatever you decide...best of luck!



To: Porter Davis who wrote (1044)6/4/1998 3:18:00 PM
From: Gary McCoy  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1598
 
Here's one for you Porter

Title reads: FEATURE-Toronto Stock Exchange plagued by scandal

canoe.ca



To: Porter Davis who wrote (1044)6/4/1998 8:07:00 PM
From: Buckey  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1598
 
Porter; Would you be so kind as to tell the crooked exchanges that they can kiss my A** - I am speaking for many many retail investors who are fed up with the unlevel playing field that we play on as compared to the brokerage houses and the exchanges.



To: Porter Davis who wrote (1044)6/4/1998 9:41:00 PM
From: 1king  Respond to of 1598
 
Porter,

While some of the information on this thread gets over my head, the implications of this attack on intelligent free speech does not.

FWIW You have my support. Gotta admire a single person who can shake an entity as big and wobbly as the TSE.

1King



To: Porter Davis who wrote (1044)6/4/1998 9:53:00 PM
From: andy  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1598
 
Too bad for the bully style of intimidation. It gives you credibility and the TSE not!
Wasn't it the TSE that made BRE-X possible? Vancouver had turned them away.



To: Porter Davis who wrote (1044)6/5/1998 4:13:00 AM
From: marcos  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1598
 
What a bunch of sleazeballs. They don't have the moral fibre or the intellectual honesty to debate your 'defamatory material' [­hah! defame is in de eye of deholder] here in the same forum in which you present it, so they sic the legal leeches on you.

I didn't have a lot of respect for Mr Roland Fleming and company, but this has reduced the possibility of ever having any. I'd like to echo what t.b. of gpm, among others, said #reply-4733441 #reply-4733619

Tell the TSE they can kiss my ass.

Wait a minute ... on second thought, I'll tell 'em

and I'll tell two friends, and they'll tell two friends, and we'll all tell 'em



To: Porter Davis who wrote (1044)6/5/1998 9:27:00 AM
From: ratan lal  Respond to of 1598
 
I have not read any of your posts so I am not sure what they are suing you for. But I cant believe that they can stop your freedom of speech.

Of course if you wanted to continue posting, you could always e-mail to someone overseas and he could cut paste and post.



To: Porter Davis who wrote (1044)6/5/1998 1:24:00 PM
From: marcos  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1598
 
Excerpt from a private message from another TSEer;

"I've read some of Porters stuff. Personally I can't see why the options can't be computerized. I can't remember what he has said about the TSE , probably that they are fairly incompetent. I tend to generally agree with him on that. They are like any beaurocracy. They also don't seem to have any real understanding of what trading stocks is about. I have heard the president proudly announce that fact on more than one occasion."




To: Porter Davis who wrote (1044)6/5/1998 5:35:00 PM
From: Bill Jackson  Respond to of 1598
 
Porter, Your opinions seem rather tame for such a response from the TSE. It suggests the smoke/fire theory is in effect.
Ever hear of barratry?

Bill



To: Porter Davis who wrote (1044)6/5/1998 5:36:00 PM
From: Mark Bartlett  Respond to of 1598
 
Porter,

Do not know you, but certainly feel you have the right of free speech to express your opinion. I sent the snivelling children at the TSE an E-mail and expressed my opinion ..... this is one of the most pathetic expressions of abuse of power I have witnessed - absolutely deplorable and in very poor judgement on the part of the TSE ... shame shame on the TSE ..... boo hoo booo hoo.

Anybody else that would like to express their opinion ... the TSE is at: tse.com

Best to you, Porter

MB




To: Porter Davis who wrote (1044)6/5/1998 9:13:00 PM
From: Technopeasant  Respond to of 1598
 
I just E mailed the TSE and told them that their conduct is unacceptable. They will, as with all institutions, ignore that, note it, list it, memo it, table it etc.
They do sit up when the volume goes up.
Key question: Does the Board know this was done? And in their name?



To: Porter Davis who wrote (1044)6/5/1998 9:26:00 PM
From: Porter Davis  Read Replies (12) | Respond to of 1598
 
I would like to clarify the following issue:

Along with the letter enjoining me from further 'defamatory attacks' on the TSE was a cc: of a letter sent to Silicon Investor which concluded:

" I am writing to you because, in my view, the publications in question may contravene your Silicon Investor terms of use, and furthermore, to notify you that future repetitions of these defamatory attacks on the Exchange or on its representatives will be, in my view, a liability for you as well as Mr. Davis."

I am not a lawyer, but I cannot imagine any scenario where SI would be responsible or culpable for postings on one of their hundreds of threads. I said what I said, not them. I will not in the future mention, discuss, or opine about the TSE or its senior management. I don't think I need to at this point.

Happy trading.

Porter



To: Porter Davis who wrote (1044)6/6/1998 3:12:00 PM
From: Tummus1  Respond to of 1598
 
I can not imagine what the TSE thinks it has accomplished by behaving such an odious fashion. The bottom line is that by censoring you rather than debating you they have demonstrated in no uncertain terms that they fear the truth. Like cockroaches they must hide in the dark and behind the most cowardly of shields, their lawyers. You won, the TSE lost. If eveyone wants to have a voice don't Email the TSE, E*mail the wall street journal, hopefully they will write an article. Then let the TSE try and sue them.

TW



To: Porter Davis who wrote (1044)6/7/1998 2:51:00 PM
From: X Y Zebra  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1598
 
Mr. Davis,

I wish to express to you my support in both your desire to express your opinions as you have in reference to the Toronto Stock Exchange, and, in addition, your decision to, as you put it, "to turn out the lights".

I understand, more than you can imagine both of your decision as I have myself face not the same, but certainly similar set of choices.

Having said the above, they say that there is always more than one way to skin a cat.

I am not familiar with all of the details, however I can not imagine that whatever you have said, particularly if such statements are based on facts, as it appears it is the case, that the TSE would consider these statements to be "publishing defamatory material".

Facts are facts, either they are proven or not.

If an organization such as the TSE has a "problem" with your statements, or SI posts. all they have to do is disprove you with facts. However, it seems to me that their pathetic attempt to "silence" you with the threat of legal action, discredits their case and it certainly makes them appear to be a modern day Neanderthal by the exercise of the legal mallet.

The bureaucrat, whether he/she is funded by a private or a public source, (the source frankly is irrelevant), possesses a mentality of destruction. Indeed, its sole function is to obstruct objective thought, as it is designed to present obstacles to whatever constructive idea may be in its path. One can say that it is like a mindless [hence stupid] terminator, designed to protect the interest of their creator, or funding source.

You Mr. Davis have made an intelligent choice, as one, must at all times "pick one's battles".

I am not an attorney, nor I am familiar with details in reference to this issue, of Canadian Law, as it may be applicable. From a practical and ethical point of view, I fail to see how the TSE position could be defensible, all they have to do is prove you wrong, surely they must understand that you are entitled to your opinion, and if such opinion is backed up by true facts, how would that be considered "defamatory material".

I would say that freedom of speech is the issue here.

While the freedom of speech is guaranteed by the first amendment to the US Constitution, one must be certain that such law is the applicable law. The question is: Is the first amendment applicable in this case?

The confines of Cyberspace, in regards to the new [still in formation] Cyberlaw, are dangerous places, further, the situation becomes somehow more complicated as the matter of American or Canadian jurisdiction is unresolved.

These differences are crucial, since the first amendment, part of the bill of rights, may only be applicable to events that take place under US jurisdiction. Further, one must understand that the bill of rights is a document that it is non-existent in any other country of this planet. This makes, and historically has made a BIG difference.

There are interests far larger than those of Mr. Davis, that could be watching this and other related issues, that at a given point could throw their support one way or the other.

Who would wish to be the "test case" to serve as "precedent" for new law?

Such unknowns, represent an increased level of risk, that most of us, as investors in the SI Universe, should be somehow familiar in considering such risks. However, it is clearly evident, that many are not. Such risk, placed against any possible reward will determine the objectivity and validation to take on a fight against a bureaucratic monster.... single handedly.

I am a supporter of free speech without question, at the same time I must accept the reality of the world in which we live in, it would be unfair to ask you Mr. Davis to be the sole individual to bear most [if not all] the risk of taking on the eight headed monster that the TSE represents.

However, I believe that like any other product or service, the TSE is and will be subject to the invisible hand of the free markets.

Moreover, here is where I believe that "we the people" can make a difference.

The world is fast becoming a smaller place. Not too long ago, the events as the one we are discussing here would be impossible to learn about in a relatively easy way, if it were not for the Internet that enables us, individuals to access such information and further enable us to express our opinions. To exchange our ideas.

We can be "mad as hell" all we want and bitch and moan likewise, but the bottom line is what are we going to do about it.

If the TSE, (or any other exchange for that matter), is as evil as they seem to be, [and please understand, I am not siding with them at all], then what we need to do is find out what our real, and viable options/choices are.

1. Do we fight them? If so, in what fashion. Do we form an independent 'corporation', in order to somehow limit our personal liability, or do we [as individuals] take on the TSE and their legal threats? Is it cost effective? What precisely are our goals?

2. Do we do nothing about it?

3. Do we formally protest?

4. If applicable, is it worth consulting with the ACLU?

5. Or do we simply 'vote' with our wallets/business?

I believe that prior to executing a reaction without thought or basic analysis would not be advisable...

Here are some sites to do a little... shall we say, soul searching?

aclu.org
w3.trib.com

It seems to me that most of the investing public does so for the purpose of making money... If such is the case, we must find out what is the best environment to do so.

They say all roads eventually "lead to Rome"... our job is to find the most convenient way to "Rome".

That means an analysis not only of the companies, strategies, and forms whereby our invested dollars and available time is best placed.

In addition, we must analyze the forum/exchange where our investing takes place.

It seems to me that with today's technologies and general thrust of the investment world, that we could consider investing practically anywhere in the world. This means options and alternatives that offer our best possible scenario in order to obtain the ultimate goal of making money.

If the Toronto Stock Exchange proves to be inefficient, unfair in their practices, indeed in allowing fraud to take place and leaving the individual investor, who I may add it is a very important component of what makes a market possible to exists, totally unprotected from the above eventualities, then the last place I would want to be is at the Toronto Stock Exchange.

I do not mean to sound simplistic, but if I have a number of options to choose from, where my sole objective is to invest in order to make money, why would I want to place my money in a place where the regulator, or moderator of such market is indeed inefficient? Therefore, increasing [unnecessarily], my risk.

Particularly in the face of new circumstances that make such participation even more difficult to support, namely:

1. Scandals such as BREX (and others).
2. Being non-compliant with the Y2K issue.
3. Continuos interruptions of the basic operation due to 'high volume'
4. Arrogance, [and inefficiency] by the operators of such exchange.

That alone, in my eyes makes a case, for staying as far away as I can from such place. Certainly as an investor, and I would hope as a company issuing stock.

On top of that, we have the risk that the companies listed in such exchange represent.

Where I come from, we have an expression that says:

"Make sure that the gravy is not more expensive than the meatballs"

Translating, this means that while there is an inherent risk in the act of investing, why make it riskier, by executing such act in a place where the PLACE itself represents a HIGHER risk than the act of investment itself....

I am of the opinion that as we "globalize" our economies, there will be serious consolidations that are prompted by an efficient market.

It is not a matter whether it will happen or not, it is already happening, and there is nothing that the bureaucrats can do to alter such. Their choice is to either become efficient and offer the investing public a better exchange, or become extinct.

While it is debatable the length of time that it will take in order for this evolution to take place, it is already happening, particularly as increasingly, people become more educated and aware of their choices. "We the people" are responsible to protect our own interest, and that means educating ourselves as to what our choices and alternatives are.

There are already brokerage houses that are offering the means to by-pass market makers, and indeed allow the investing public to become a real "participant" in the market, rather than allow the market makers and specialists be "our representatives".

As an example, I offer the following:

Firms such as MB Trading, in which offer direct placing of one's orders between bid and ask:

Subject 19037

Execution systems such as SOES (and others, that slowly are being made available to the retail investing public)

Subject 5250

In my opinion this is only the beginning, I understand that Canadian Options may not be offered as of yet, but that may change, particularly if there were to be a demand for them, triggered by the very events we are discussing here.

The choices in the future will be clear, either these bureaucrats become more aware of the needs of the investing public, (armed with new capabilities, thanks to technology), or they will become extinct.

In the mean time, I want to bring to your attention a few choice thoughts from Henry Louis Mencken (1880 - 1956), that in a more eloquent manner express my own feelings, and quite possibly your own, Mr. Davis.

The funny thing is that Mr. Mencken passed away a few years ago, yet his thoughts are as if they were meant for the monsters that threaten us today....

Here are a few:

"The most dangerous man, to any government, is the man who is able to think things out for himself, without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost invariably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane and intolerable, and so, if he is romantic, he tries to change it. And if he is not romantic personally, he is apt to spread discontent among those who are."

*************

"[Government] is apprehended, not as a committee of citizens chosen to carry on the communal business of the whole population, but as a separate and autonomous corporation, mainly devoted to exploiting the population for the benefit of its own members. .... When a private citizen is robbed, a worthy man is deprived of the fruits of his industry and thrift; when the government is robbed, the worst that happens is that certain rogues and loafers have less money to play with than they had before."

*****************

"An idealist is one who, on noticing that a rose smells better than a cabbage, concludes that it will also make better soup."

*****************
"The cynics are right nine times out of ten."
-------------------------------------------------

In closing Mr. Davis, I remind you that I am not an attorney and I am not giving you any advice whatsoever, I am merely expressing my opinion about, and support for your actions, I wish you the best of luck, and I hope that you can find the right approach so as to not be silenced, yet at the same time you are not placed in a position of unnecessary and unreasonable risk that jeopardize your best interest.

Best regards.

Z.



To: Porter Davis who wrote (1044)10/14/1998 6:02:00 PM
From: marcos  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1598
 
And the gags they keep a-comin' #reply-6012802 - that little forum had some useful clarifications of news from management on it. But that's bad, according to Mr. Fleming.

Hope all is well with you, Porter ....... cheers



To: Porter Davis who wrote (1044)4/6/1999 3:42:00 PM
From: marcos  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1598
 
Computer woes halt TSE trading
Glitch raises questions about restructuring plan

Tuesday, April 6, 1999
Richard Blackwell
The Globe and Mail

The Toronto Stock Exchange halted trading
in equities and derivatives for 2½ hours
yesterday because of a computer glitch,
enraging some market participants and
raising questions about the TSE's plans to
take over all Canadian trading in blue-chip
stocks.

The TSE pulled the plug at 10:45 a.m. local
time, and trading in equities didn't restart
until 1:15 p.m. The derivatives market
reopened at 1:30 p.m. The TSE said the
decision to shut down came after problems
developed with communications lines among
the exchange and its members through
outside service bureaus that handle order
matching.

"The technical difficulties worsened to the
point where it was determined that a 'fair
market' could no longer be sustained," the
TSE said in a release.

Spokesman Steve Kee said the shutdown
was not related to year 2000 testing, and
was not a problem with the old CATS
(computer-assisted trading system)
computers that the exchange is planning to
replace next year. However, he said the
crash may have been related to a scheduled
power shutdown that happened last Friday.

No trades were lost and none had to be
reversed, Mr. Kee said.

Whatever the cause, brokerage firms
scrambled to tell clients about the problem,
and routed trades in interlisted stocks to the
Montreal Exchange or the New York Stock
Exchange.

For some, the shutdown was unacceptable.

"It's a situation that is just intolerable," said
Peter Hickman, president of discount broker
HSBC InvestDirect Canada Inc.

"They want to be the premier exchange in
Canada, and if they're going to do that, they
have to have a reliable backup," Mr.
Hickman said.

If the TSE does become the sole Canadian
market for large-capitalization stocks as part
of the plan to revamp Canadian stock
markets, it will have to do better, he said.

"If the exchange is going to put itself in a
position where it is the only place in Canada
where you can trade those stocks, then it
behooves them to make sure they can stay
up all the time. The world is talking about
24-hour-a-day trading, and we can't even
keep it up during normal business hours. I
mean, come on, guys."

John See, president of Green Line Investor
Services Inc., the discount brokerage arm of
Toronto-Dominion Bank, said the crash
came at a bad time because yesterday's
market was very active. U.S. technology
stocks and shares in on-line brokerages were
on the rise, and some Canadian bank stocks
were jumping.

"It creates a headache," Mr. See said. "It
certainly doesn't help build confidence [in
the TSE's computers]."

Others in the investment industry were more
sanguine.

"It's clearly not a good thing," said Paul
Bates, president of Charles Schwab Canada.
"But it happens to all exchanges. No
exchange is immune. As long as the
gets back up fairly quickly, it's not
cataclysmic."

Even the world's biggest bourse has
experienced system crashes. Last October,
the NYSE was shut down for an hour after
it was hit by network communications
problems.

One institutional equity trader described
yesterday's shutdown as "frustrating" but
said that "generally the TSE has done a
pretty good job maintaining reliable
systems."

The previous major shutdown at the TSE
was just over a year ago, when the trading
system crashed for 14 minutes. In the past
decade, it has failed several times, the most
notorious being in the spring of 1997 when,
on two separate days, a flood of trading in
collapsing Bre-X Minerals Ltd. overloaded
the computers and caused them to fail.

The exchange is in the process of shifting
trading from its old CATS computers to a
new system called Torex.

"This thing [CATS] has been there since
1977," said Fred Ketchen, director of equity
trading at ScotiaMcLeod Inc. "[It's been]
upgraded, but it's still there."

Mr. Ketchen, who was chairman of the TSE
from 1993 to 1995, said he hopes Torex is
in place by the time the TSE takes over
Canada's blue-chip trading.

He said some people who are opposed to the
reorganization of the exchanges will use
yesterday's failure as ammunition in their
fight against realignment.

BUGS IN THE SYSTEM

Previous computer-related problems at the
Toronto Stock Exchange.

Aug. 16, 1989: Malfunction in TSE
computer system shuts down trading floor
for almost three hours.

Sept. 30, 1991: Trading crippled for about
20 minutes when TSE's computer-assisted
trading (CATS) system fails. At the time
about half the exchange's stocks traded on
CATS.

March 3, 1992: Software glitch records
wildly inaccurate prices and fails to print
tickets to confirm trades, forcing the TSE to
shut its trading floor for nearly four hours.

March 4, 1996: TSE investigates its
automated trading system after problems
forced it to close for most of the morning.

March 27 and April 1, 1997: Unusually
heavy trading volume related to the Bre-X
fraud crashes the TSE's computer system.

March 19, 1998: Trading system goes down
for 14 minutes in the afternoon, but is
reopened at 3:45 just before the markets
close.

theglobeandmail.com

Let's see 'im sue the Globe -g-