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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Rambi who wrote (22885)	6/12/1998 8:51:00 PM
From: James R. Barrett	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

>>"....-but I find your Southern women comments troubling! The culture and behavioral patterns of the south are different for BOTH men and women, and for you to interpret, based on a limited frame of reference, that it's "submissive" in nature is presumptuous...."<< Is it true that fried chicken is the only meat dish that Southern women know how to cook? Is it true that Southern women prefer Virginia baked ham because they don't own a refrigerator? Is it true that most of the grits wind up in the dog's dish? Is it true that dumplings are made from the left over grits the dog wouldn't eat? Is it true that Southern women do not wear underwear in the summer? Why do Southern women allow the chickens to live in the house? Is it true that Southern women are forced to make pecan pie for their brutal husbands? Is it true that Southern women smoke corn cob pipes instead of cigarettes? Is it true that most Southern women drink moonshine in the outhouse? Is it true that Southern women are barefoot and pregnant most of the time? Is it true that most Southern women are married by age 15? Is it true that Southern single women over the age of 22 live in "spinster homes" and make quilts for the tourists? Is it true that Southern women will only make corn bread because they are afraid of getting a yeast infection? Is it true that all Southern women know how to square dance and play the banjo? Is it true that most Southern women believe that a crayfish is a lobster? Do Southern women ever wear anything besides a house dress? Your Yankee pal, General Sherman

To: Rambi who wrote (22885)	6/13/1998 3:06:00 PM
From: Grainne	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

Penni, I reread my post, and don't see it the same way you must have taken it. Of course, you were also responding to Ann's post, so I think things may have gotten generally muddled. I cannot speak for Ann, but will try to make myself clear. In my post, I am referring specifically to the Southern Baptist women who supported the change in the church policy about women. This would be the women who were on the steering committee which wrote the statement, the women at the convention who voted for it (it passed almost unanimously, as I recall), and/or went on television and defended it. I know that a lot of Southern Baptists do not go along with this kind of stuff. Bill Clinton and Al Gore are both Southern Baptists, and it is difficult to imagine Hillary and Tipper acquiescing. In fact, Mike McCurry, the president's press secretary, made a joke about how Bill would even tell Hillary that she was now expected to be submissive. If you reread my post, I didn't say anything at all about Southern women in general. I did write about what is appealing to women about the idea of being submissive, but I wrote that from my own perspective. I probably should have elaborated on my first paragraph, about never having been further south than Texas, because I can see where it might cause a misunderstanding. What I saw in Texas was a society where latinos and blacks were very, very submissive to white people, and this happened in all my interchanges with them. I also overheard openly racist remarks on several occasions. It was a strangely violent place to me, with rifles, shotguns and handguns everywhere, and people drinking beer while they drove. It was a culture shock, having lived so long in San Francisco. The society seems quite stratified according to race, although I know that is changing. My aunt wanted my husband and me to come and live in San Antonio, but I felt very strongly that this was a culture would be very difficult for me to feel at home in. As far as southern women, my grandmother was very independent and assertive and strong. Two of her daughters grew up loving to hunt and fish, were very athletic, and could skin a deer or spend hours wrestling a deep sea fish weighing several hundred pounds to death. Of course women all over the south are just as different as all the women anywhere, and I would not stereotype them. And I didn't!! I do think that what happened at the Southern Baptists convention is potentially very negative in its impact on society in general, because it sends dangerous messages to women and impressionable young girls. I am very concerned about the abuse of women and children, and anything that would tend to lead to more, not less, domination of women and children by men is going to arouse my interest, quite naturally. This was covered very, very widely in the press, and along with the Promise Keepers, is part of the conservative Christian political agenda which I find very alarming. So of course I am going to talk about it. This is a situation where a church is acting as an institution, and in a very political way, having an impact upon the larger society. Did you know that one quarter of teenage girls are battered in relationships in America? Right now, today? This is one of the statistics that was bandied about in one of the talking head discussions. Any widely publicized message, or reinforcement of a belief system, where women are expected to submit in any way is certainly a negative as it affects this wider societal problem. But later this afternoon, I am going to lie around outside in the garden with a tall glass of Southern Comfort on ice. I will garnish it with a mint sprig!! Who knows? Maybe I will even swoon or something!!! ;^)

To: Rambi who wrote (22885)	6/13/1998 6:48:00 PM
From: Ann Corrigan	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

Penni, First of all, let me extend my apologies if my post re baptist convention platform offended you. If i'd not been a newcomer to the "feelings" thread and knew all the contributing personalities & their locations, I'd probably have resisted posting my opinion out of deference to you & other regular participants. That said, your response & ongoing discussion with Christine has been eye-opening for me as far as there being more diversity in the south than I realized. I live in the mid-atlantic region & vacation with my family in No. Carolina each summer. That's the extent of my southern contact. When I first heard the news media broadcast of the so. baptist convention pronouncement re "wife being graciously submissive to her husband" my jaw dropped. Thought all that had been settled 30 years ago. As Christine is aware, my post here followed a prolonged dispute with the male extremeists in the Ask God forum. Hope no-one is offended, but I believe the bible is the real problem in this "submissive" situation. Open discussion of its credibility as far as passages about females and the harm that has done thru the centuries should not be a forbidden territory IMO. In any event, if you are a typical southern female I must say they have a terrific sense of humor as displayed in your response to James. It was hilarious. Take care, Ann