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To: Dwight E. Karlsen who wrote (46595)	6/23/1998 8:10:00 AM
From: donald sew	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 58727

Dwight, >>>> And I bet you weren't in a weather-protected factory, and I bet you weren't making $69K plus $21K in bennies. and no I will never put myself back into the conditions that I have worked in...unionized or not... Me neither, at least not if I can help it. and believe me unionized workers make a heck of lot more money than MANY MANY MANY blue collared people out there <<<<< I was away all day yesterday so am not sure what this topic is about, but I also have strong comments about unions expecially one - the longshoremen. Senior clerks make 100,000+, and this is someone who only takes down container numbers. Crane operators 100,000+, a much more demanding job but does not deserve that much money. And then we had the infamous GAI (GUARRANTEED ANNUAL INCOME). Every container which lands at the PORT OF NEW YORK is charges $500 per container for GAI, only, and that is over and above the costs for handling the container. Also the longshoreman's union was like a license to steal and be lazy, although things have improved somewhat over the year. Seeya

To: Dwight E. Karlsen who wrote (46595)	6/23/1998 10:40:00 AM
From: ViperChick Secret Agent 006.9	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 58727

<<<thanks for holding down the fort while I was away.>> wellll you are welcome I thought it was crazy to assume someone hasnt worked intense labor for 12-15 hours a day just because of an opinion on unionized labor or that CEO's are not pressured or work long hours or that white collar workers dont know intense labor quite frankly , there are ALOT of white collar workers that make ALOT less than those factory workers find out how much your average prosecutor or public defender is paid after 19 years of schooling and how many hours they work AND the incredible stress they are under and I wonder if Kevin would tell a Dr. that he couldnt possibly know about intense labor and extreme working conditions because they are white collar but find out the hours of a Dr doing his residency and what he is paid and the INCREDIBLE stress they are under . I really dont like the system used because the Dr is stressed and overworked and working horrible hours for little money and the person who can suffer is the patient. I hope I never end up in an emergency room for anything serious and the list goes on and on and on and on I think you showed that Kevin doesnt have a clue that people can be critical of what the GM strike is about and still have worked intense hours and yes working intense hours is extreme working conditions no matter the job....the body and mind can only take so much and yes construction work is very dangerous.....I shudder when I think of someone working on a bridge or anything that is elevated.... btw, yes I am critical of unions...especially those that make an employee say sorry I cant change that light bulb or sorry I cant move that camera or Hey I am not allowed to plug in that wire so I will just sit here doing nothing etc etc etc but then again...if I can make fun of the NRA, I can make fun of the unions ;-) --------- amazing that this market has so much steam after that AMG data about cash inflow

To: Dwight E. Karlsen who wrote (46595)	6/23/1998 1:01:00 PM
From: shadowman	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 58727

Lisa writes: >I think you showed that Kevin doesnt have a clue that people can be critical of what the GM strike is about and still have worked intense hours and yes working intense hours is extreme working conditions no matter the job....the body and mind can only take so much and yes construction work is very dangerous.....I shudder when I think of someone working on a bridge or anything that is elevated.... btw, yes I am critical of unions...especially those that make an employee say sorry I cant change that light bulb or sorry I cant move that camera or Hey I am not allowed to plug in that wire so I will just sit here doing nothing etc etc etc < Dwight writes: >and believe me unionized workers make a heck of a lot more money than Many Mann Many blue collared people out there A heck of a lot more than many is right. who work, just as hard If not harder, with a heck of a lot more autocratic, no-recourse-for-the-employee bosses, in many cases.< Okay, you two have put in your time and earned your "I've been there, done that" badge. I don't believe that Kevin or I were in any way defending the "pure as fallen snow" nature of some labor unions, or being critical of blue collar workers who find themselves working in an environment where they don't have union representation. The workplace , whether white collar or blue collar, can be a very difficult and sometimes dehumanizing experience. I think all of us posters and lurkers alike can relate instances where our jobs were not a walk in the park. The merits or demerits of the GM strike aside, I think both of you (maybe inadvertently) make decent arguments why worker representation (unions or associations) in the workplace may work to democratize the relationship between employer and employee. I know I'd be pulling for both of you guys to get a lunch break (Lisa) or to eat a non-frozen meal (Dwight):) I know from your aforementioned difficult personal work experiences, that both of you are not attacking the concept of decent pay and decent working conditions for a decent day's work. Although there does seem to be something contradictory in what you two are saying. Lets see if I've got this right?? Because you two have experienced the hardship of gruelling blue collar work, you've come to the conclusion that. 1. Unions are unreasonable 2. Non union workers do not seem to enjoy the benefits (wages, working conditions), that union workers have (abused?). 3. Therefore, we should feel badly for the non-union blue collar workers and criticize the progress (gains) that unionized workers have enjoyed, through collective bargaining, as unreasonable. BOMBS AWAY!

To: Dwight E. Karlsen who wrote (46595)	6/23/1998 4:27:00 PM
From: Jay	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 58727

Gosh, I was reading some of these posts and I'm really disillusioned. Here I thought this was a bunch of high class traders. Now I find a pack of blue collar laborers. Boy am I surprised to find the people I've been reading are as low class as the people I work with! It shows you just can't tell anything about the people on these threads. You can't know anything for sure (except that Pat is in the running for "Sexiest Man Alive"-that was corroborated by a poster who'd met him). Ya know, all we really have are our words. Do you think anyone would pay attention to those Bubba's who post, "This one's gettin' ready to move," or "The good news is coming out on this one this week" if we could see these jokers? Maybe, but I doubt it. Dwight, you lost the vision in one of your eyes? That's awful! Was this a union job? Did they reimburse you in any way? An eye! God, but no one could properly compensate me for that! I feel for you man. Tell me, is this why GM should "Fire `em all"? I'm sorry if I'm connecting two unrelated events, but as I said above, I only have your words to know you by. As a member of a union myself, I find your words insulting. Does that surprise you? Were you looking for a reaction or was this just an unthinking comment? Heck, I can understand that. But if you think about it for just a moment, you will realize your words were no less offensive than the racist comments made on this thread not long ago. We all work hard. I've heard it and believe it. It would be foolish for a CEO to put in less hours than necessary. Union and non-union laborers all work very hard. Why do you want to judge GM workers? What, in your opinion, should they get paid? Should it be more or less than you? Do you think so little of GM management that you don't think they will be able to negotiate with the union? Whatever happens, the stock price will reflect it very soon. You know, this isn't the Worker's Paradise. Your old enough to remember that place, right? Where the government set the wages? Everyone was happy, but for some reason it failed. Do you think they were paying the workers too much? Think on it; but mostly, think on what you say. In this arena, all we have are words. Good trading, I wish you the best, Jay