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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Raymond James Norris who wrote (18671)	7/1/1998 7:33:00 AM
From: DLL	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

John 8 (38-59) "I speak the things which I have seen with My Father; therefore you also do the things which you heard from your father." They answered and said to Him, "Abraham is our father." Jesus said to them, "If you are Abraham's children, do the deeds of Abraham. But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. You are doing the deeds of your father." They said to Him, "We were not born of fornication; we have one Father: God." Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me. Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me. Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me? He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God." The Jews answered and said to Him, "Do we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan and have a demon?" Jesus answered, "I do not have a demon; but I honor My Father, and you dishonor Me. But I do not seek My glory; there is One who seeks and judges. Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death." The Jews said to Him, "Now we know that You have a demon. Abraham died, and the prophets also; and You say, "If anyone keeps My word, he will never taste of death." Surely You are not greater than our father Abraham, who died? The prophets died too; whom do You make Yourself out to be?" Jesus answered, "If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, "He is our God"; and you have not come to know Him, but I know Him; and if I say that I do not know Him, I will be a liar like you, but I do know Him and keep His word. Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." So the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple. I hope this helps. You seen like an intelligent man. I pray you will think about these things. In Yeshua's love for you - DLL

To: Raymond James Norris who wrote (18671)	7/1/1998 8:49:00 AM
From: IN_GOD_I_TRUST	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

You say, "What's explicit is that Jesus said to believe in God and also believe in him. Again, we are to believe in God and Jesus. Islam says the exact same." Do you believe this? Jesus said this: John 14:6 6: Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. You must believe this, because Jesus said it! You are supposed to believe in God and Jesus as you said above! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- John 1:1 1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Your words: "Muslims believe Jesus Christ is an elite Messenger from God.... " "Again, just because Jesus (Pbuh) was alive before the world was..." Bible says what was in the beginning. John 1:1. Does a messenger of God qualify having the characteristics of being around before the world was? Where do you see that justification in the bible? Doesn't eternal existence mean something? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Do you believe Jesus? If you do, you must believe he is the only way to God! He said it, plain and simple..... I'm praying for you! Steve

To: Raymond James Norris who wrote (18671)	7/1/1998 9:07:00 AM
From: PROLIFE	Respond to of 39621

For any who care to read more of this subject there are VERY good articles written at the URL below. answering-islam.org

To: Raymond James Norris who wrote (18671)	7/1/1998 10:04:00 AM
From: Steelguy	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

Good morning all, Raymond, maybe this will help to show you that Jesus is indeed God. Matthew 1:20 - 23 But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, " Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins. All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: " The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" -- which means, " God with us." ** so.......... The angel told Joseph that Mary's child was conceived by the Holy Spirit and would be a son. This reveals to us that indeed Jesus is two things -- he is both God and human. Although this is a stickler point for many, probably yourself included. But indeed Jesus is and was God and man. One of the wonderful blessings of belief in Christ is to realize that he lived here on earth as a man with all of the temptations etc... that all men and women face on earth. And yet, he lived perfectly...sinless for his entire life!!!! Only a man who was conceived by the Holy Spirit could have done this. Jesus means " the Lord saves " Jesus came to earth to save us because we can not save ourselves from sin. No matter how " good " we are in this life here on earth, we can never eliminate the sinful nature present in all of us. Only Jesus can do this. Jesus was to be called " Immanuel " or " God with us ", as predicted by the prophet Isaiah 7:14. Jesus was God in the flesh; thus God was LITERALLY among us, " with us " . As Steve already showed you in John 1:1 " In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Case closed isn't it ? The Word was God. Jesus is the Word and the word was God. This is the truth about Jesus and the foundation of all truth. Many " mysteries " for lack of a better word, exist when we look at God's will, the Bible, Christ's life, salvation etc.... We need to realize that WE are human and the grace of God and His will are FAR BEYOND our understanding. We need to believe as a child, with childlike faith in Christ. Difficult at times I know, but we can not rationalize our way through the bible to understand everything in it. Impossible to do. But we can be comforted that the Peace of God, which passes all of our human understanding can and is with us through the Holy Spirit. And for that I say Amen. Thanks be to God for sending us his Son who is both God and man to save us and bridge the gap between this earth and our Father. Enjoy the day all. Steelguy.

To: Raymond James Norris who wrote (18671)	7/1/1998 1:16:00 PM
From: Sidney Reilly	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 39621

Raymond, You are correct that Jesus did not claim equality with God. [Philippians 2:5-11 5 Have this attitude in yourselves that was in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, he did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but He emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore God also highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, 11 and every tongue should confess that Jesus is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.] So Jesus existed in the form of God but did not claim equality with God. He humbled Himself instead of exalting Himself. [Revelation 19:13 And He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood; and His name is called The Word of God.] Two scriptures that show Jesus is called the word of God. [John 1:1-5; 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being by Him; and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness; and the darkness did not comprehend it.] Jesus is the Word of God and this scripture says plainly He is also God. [14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth was realized through Jesus Christ. 18 No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten God, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.] The only begotten God speaks of Jesus who is God coming to men in the form of a man. [John 10:30 Jesus said this. "I and the Father are one." He also said in John 14:9 "He who has seen Me has seen the Father" In verse 7 Jesus says, "If you had known Me, you would have known the Father also;"] In these scriptures in Hebrews Jesus is further explained as the exact representation of God's nature, and speaking of Jesus " through whom also He made the world." Through Jesus, the Word of God, the entire world was made, but not just the world but all of creation. Hebrews 1:1-4 1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir to all things, through whom also He made the world. 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high; 4 having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they. Jesus is clearly with God at the beginning of this creation, nothing was made without Jesus. Jesus is God but did not grasp at that but was humble, He came in the form of a man to us, the Son of God, to save that which had been lost. That's US that were lost. Bob