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Technology Stocks : Amazon.com, Inc. (AMZN) -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Tom D who wrote (10652)7/16/1998 9:22:00 PM
From: Rob S.  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 164684
 
The fact, not a "pissing contest", is that Amazon.com is NOW valued at many times what analysts forecast for earnings in the year 2000. Is it that the company's own disclosure statements clearly point out that the GROSS MARGIN on 10 times the current level of annual sales need to be achieved just to pay off the Senior notes? How much sales will it actually take to pay back the venture insiders is anyone's guess since the company now earns a negative 10.1+% net <profit>. What if the company is able to achieve net profit of 10% in a just three years? How many years will it take to pay off the $540 million? Let's see, $540 mil/0.10 = $5.4 billion in sales. If Amazonianut.com grows sales to ten times the current level, then it will take more than two years of total profits just to pay off the debt. Not a pretty number unless you are the venture capitalist. And this debt is only expected to carry the company through the next twelve months. OK, to be fair, the Senior notes can be paid off sooner if the company is able to, thus potentially reducing the $540 amount to between $450 to $540 million. But What will the company use to expand to a distributed warehouse infra-structure and larger inventory levels? What will they use to fund the cash-flow requirements on products that do not provide the 45 days credit terms that books do? Have you ever studied a pro-forma cash-flow statement? Run the model up on your Excel spreadsheet and see how it looks. I'd love to see the results. Amazon.com will need to go out for a secondary offering or more expensive debt by twelve months in order to fund the need for increased facilities, inventory, and cash-flow expansion. $Caching$, there goes the hope of investors ever seeing earnings for the next several years.

If youre willing to concede that speculation on future earnings or losses is not a valid way to judge the value of Amazonianut.com shares, then what do you propose to value Amazon on? Current earnings (excuse me, losses)? I think you only want to look at the things that are exciting - high internet growth rates, and ignore completely the fundamentals and pay-offs on the huge debt.

I invite you to post any facts and figures that justify the price based on current fundamentals or projections. Step over your "bullshit" line in the sand if you dare, or sulk away if you can't.



To: Tom D who wrote (10652)7/16/1998 9:53:00 PM
From: Peter V  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 164684
 
<<This board is littered with shorts who have been burned because they were too overconfident.>>

and I'm one of them. AMZN is not valued on fundamentals, and has not been since at least January. I can't for the life of me figure out WHY anyone with any sense would buy this thing at these levels, but they have, and may continue to do so. It is a speculative vehicle at this point, and those insisting on using valuation as a indicator to long or short this stock are going to be wrong, at least in the short term. Fundamentals got nothin' to do with this right now.

I appreciate the longs' view on this thing, a thread is not helped by a one-sided discussion, where each side tries to out-insult the other until it's all just noise. Both longs and shorts have been guilty of this here. There are threads where shorts and longs peacefully coexist, and the discussions are helpful to both. I tried to discuss AMZN with jawd and Mark Fowler, I really wanted to know what they thought, and jawd was amazingly consistent with his forecasting ability. It is actually possible to learn from someone whose position is contrary to your own, if for nothing else to try and understand why the stock does what it does, despite the disconnect from fundamental value.

I hope others on this thread try to cut Tom some slack in the future, he seems to have been a reasonable guy, no need to slam him every time he posts.



To: Tom D who wrote (10652)7/17/1998 5:42:00 PM
From: Mark Fowler  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 164684
 
This board is littered with shorts who have been burned because they were
too overconfident. And here you are mocking somebody who has the temerity
to disagree with you. <<

When you chase away bulls with mockery, what is left? Pictures of pigs to print and paste on your refrigerator? <<

Amzn shorts don't get burned, they just die! If this company is going to manage their inventory like i think they are, then their will be much more dead bear meat around here soon. Let's see, i've seen two crops of shorts on this thread and now this is the third. I suppose Glenn will be here till the end though, but i don't mind Glenn just wish he was on the bullish side at times. Go ahead shorts, short the fu-k out this little diamond and make me richer! Oh, Tom i like that part about "pictures of pigs". Can't understand why these Amzn bears think they're so smart and cute with all their money, the money they're making shorting Amzn... yeah right!