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Politics : Did Slick Boink Monica? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Greenpeace who wrote (17575)7/27/1998 6:49:00 PM
From: Rick Slemmer  Respond to of 20981
 
Star(r) is out of control and you people don't see it. Sit back and analyze this as much as I have and you will come to the same conclusion that I have.

Well, then, it's up to the President or the Attorney General to fire Starr for being out of control, isn't it? They both seem strangely silent on the issue. Wonder why....

BTW, you haven't forgotten about the 900 (oops. it's up to 1100 now) FBI files, have you? Every one is a potential civil-rights case. Charles Colson spent seven months in federal prison for his possession of a SINGLE FBI file.

Yup; Bill Clinton is creating jobs, all right: most of them are in the Independent Counsel's office.

RS



To: Greenpeace who wrote (17575)7/27/1998 6:54:00 PM
From: jlallen  Respond to of 20981
 
GP: Get your facts straight. Fascism is from your end of the political spectrum, the left not from the right.

What would have happened in Paula Jones case IF Bubba and Lewinski had told the truth? Would the case still be there perhaps? BTW, the Supreme Court has recently ruled that a woman claiming sexual harassment can pursue here claim even if she can't show quid pro quo damages or any detrimental effect on her job. Guess what that means for Bubba. Her appeal will succeed and the case will be back on track.

I don't need to lie about sex. I understood and meant the vows I took upon my marriage. Honor, integrity, tradition; these things mean nothing to Bubba. Nothing except his own pleasure and power makes one bit of difference to him.

Perjury, Subornation of Perjury and Obstruction of Justice are important crimes GP. There is no comparison to your lame example of the mattress tag. Take off the blinders. Sit back and analyze that. JLA



To: Greenpeace who wrote (17575)7/27/1998 7:19:00 PM
From: Bill  Respond to of 20981
 
Who are you, Geraldo Rivera? This thing has nothing to do with sex. It deals with a pattern of obstruction of justice that this WH has engaged in since they took office. Unfortunately, despite all of your "deep thinking", you have fallen for the mantra of morons. Your belief system on this important issue of justice is clouded by your reflex liberalism.

Forget about the mattress tag. If the grower of your alfalfa sprouts lied under oath about pesticides used on his crop, would you want him to go unpunished?



To: Greenpeace who wrote (17575)7/27/1998 9:20:00 PM
From: Catfish  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 20981
 
A blizzard of lies from the lady in pink

New York Times
January 7, 1996 William Safire

January 7, 1996
ESSAY / By WILLIAM SAFIRE
A blizzard of lies from the lady in pink Americans of all political persuasions are coming to the sad realization that our first lady -- a woman of undoubted talents who was a role model for many in her generation -- is a congenital liar.

Drip by drip, like Whitewater torture, the case is being made that she is compelled to mislead, and to ensnare her subordinates and friends in a web of deceit.

1. Remember the story she told about studying The Wall Street Journal to explain her 10,000 percent profit in 1979 commodity trading? We now know that was a lie told to turn aside accusations that as the governor's wife she profited corruptly, her account being run by a lawyer for state poultry interests through a disreputable broker.

She lied for good reason: To admit otherwise would be to confess taking, and paying taxes on, what some think amounted to a $100,000 bribe.

2. The abuse of presidential power known as Travelgate elicited another series of lies. She induced a White House lawyer to assert flatly to investigators that Mrs. Clinton did not order the firing of White House travel aides, who were then harassed by the FBI and Justice Department to justify patronage replacement by Mrs. Clinton's cronies.

Now we know, from a memo long concealed from investigators, that there would be "hell to pay" if the furious first lady's desires were scorned. The career of the lawyer who transmitted Hillary's lie to authorities is now in jeopardy. Again, she lied with good reason: to avoid being identified as a vindictive political power player who used the FBI to ruin the lives of people standing in the way of juicy patronage.

3. In the aftermath of the apparent suicide of her former partner and closest confidant, White House Deputy Counsel Vincent Foster, she ordered the overturn of an agreement to allow the Justice Department to examine the files in the dead man's office. Her closest friends and aides, under oath, have been blatantly disremembering this likely obstruction of justice, and may have to pay for supporting Hillary's lie with jail terms.

Again, the lying was not irrational. Investigators believe that damning records from the Rose Law Firm, wrongfully kept in Vincent Foster's White House office, were spirited out in the dead of night and hidden from the law for two years -- in Hillary's closet, in Web Hubbell's basement before his felony conviction, in the president's secretary's personal files -- before some were forced out last week.

Why the White House concealment? For good reason: The records show Hillary Clinton was lying when she denied actively representing a criminal enterprise known as the Madison S&L, and indicate she may have conspired with Web Hubbell's father-in-law to make a sham land deal that cost taxpayers $3 million.

Why the belated release of some of the incriminating evidence? Not because it mysteriously turned up in offices previously searched. Certainly not because Hillary Clinton and her new hang-tough White House counsel want to respond fully to lawful subpoenas.

One reason for the Friday-night dribble of evidence from the White House is the discovery by the FBI of copies of some of those records elsewhere. When Clinton witnesses are asked about specific items in "lost" records -- which investigators have -- the White House "finds" its copy and releases it. By concealing the Madison billing records two days beyond the statute of limitations, Hillary evaded a civil suit by bamboozled bank regulators.

Another reason for recent revelations is the imminent turning of former aides and partners of Hillary against her; they were willing to cover her lying when it advanced their careers, but are inclined to listen to their own lawyers when faced with perjury indictments.

Therefore, ask not "Why didn't she just come clean at the beginning?" She had good reasons to lie; she is in the longtime habit of lying; and she has never been called to account for lying herself or in suborning lying in her aides and friends.

No wonder the president is fearful of holding a prime-time press conference. Having been separately deposed by the independent counsel at least twice, the president and first lady would be well advised to retain separate defense counsel.

Copyright 1996 The New York Times Company
freerepublic.com



To: Greenpeace who wrote (17575)7/27/1998 9:48:00 PM
From: Catfish  Respond to of 20981
 
Presidential Evasions

Landmark Legal Foundation
July 1998 Mark Levin

So far, Mr. Clinton has lost every constitutional argument he has taken to the courts. The United States Supreme Court rejected Mr. Clinton's assertion of civil immunity in the Paula Jones sexual assault lawsuit. The Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals rejected Hillary Clinton's attorney-client privilege claims, forcing her to give Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr notes taken by government lawyers who were improperly representing her in the Whitewater investigation. The Supreme Court rejected the Clintons' request to even hear the case on appeal. A federal district judge ruled against Mr. Clinton's expansive claims of executive privilege and attorney-client privilege, which were asserted by Mr. Clinton to prevent his top aides from testifying before a federal grand jury. Mr. Clinton has now appealed those rulings. And the same judge refused to recognize the Clinton administration's newly fabricated privilege, the so-called Secret Service Protective Function Privilege. This, too, has been appealed by Mr. Clinton.

The presidency Mr. Clinton envisions for himself would be vastly different than the presidency he inherited when he took office, and vastly different from the office created by the Founding Fathers. A president would be immune from civil litigation involving allegations of personal misconduct that took place before he came to office. He would be free to use his government lawyers for personal legal matters. He would be free to claim a new attorney-client privilege preventing those same government lawyers from cooperating with federal investigators. A president would be free to assert executive privilege to prevent his top staffers from telling grand juries and trial juries about illegalities they may have witnessed. And even Secret Service agents and uniform officers would be part of a president's obstruction team.

For wholly personal reasons -- that is, to protect himself from civil allegations and criminal investigations of wrongdoing -- this president has sought to transform the presidency into a truly imperial office. But the most disturbing evidence of Mr. Clinton's arrogance will come in the weeks and months ahead, when the American people are faced with the spectacle of Mr. Clinton attempting, yet again, to use his official powers to thwart a criminal investigation of his personal misconduct.


Yesterday's Washington Post suggests that the president, who has already refused six times to testify voluntarily before a grand jury investigating the Lewinsky-Clinton scandal, will not comply with a subpoena compelling his testimony, should one be issued. Moreover, if subpoenaed, Mr. Clinton will reportedly claim that, as president, he cannot be subpoenaed against his will because he cannot be indicted. And a court cannot enforce the subpoena under the separation of powers doctrine because it lacks the authority to punish him - such as holding him in contempt and sending him to prison.

In United States v. Richard Milhouse Nixon, the Supreme Court, in an 8 to 0 decision, rejected President Nixon's executive privilege argument that he was not required to provide subpoenaed tapes to Special Prosecutor Leon Jaworski. The high court ordered Mr. Nixon to turn over the tapes, which he did. They incriminated Mr. Nixon and led to his resignation. Moreover, in Paula Corbin Jones v. William Jefferson Clinton, the Supreme Court, in a 9 to 0 ruling, held recently that Mr. Clinton was subject to certain civil lawsuits while in office. At a minimum, with these two rulings as guideposts, it is difficult to imagine the Supreme Court reversing course and deciding that a president is immune from testifying in a criminal matter involving his own personal conduct. Furthermore, I doubt the high court will realize suddenly that it violated the separation of powers doctrine (and, I would add, Art. III, Sec. 2 of the Constitution - the cases and controversies clause) when, twenty-four years ago, it heard the Nixon tapes case and directed Mr. Nixon to release his tapes to his special prosecutor.

Furthermore, and perhaps most importantly, Mr. Clinton himself has submitted willingly to the judiciary's authority in his disputes with his prosecutor, Mr. Starr, by filing briefs in federal district court, the court of appeals and the Supreme Court opposing grand jury subpoenas for the testimony of top White House officials on executive privilege and attorney-client privilege grounds. Mr. Clinton has never argued in any brief that the court lacks jurisdiction to hear these cases under the doctrine of separation of powers and, therefore, lacks the power to compel his compliance with their rulings.

Apart from Supreme Court precedent, however, the Constitution does not prevent a federal grand jury from indicting a president, or issuing subpoenas to a president. The Constitution gives the president, as head of the executive branch, the power to stop an indictment against himself or to direct its withdrawal. He also has the power to direct the prosecutor to withdraw a subpoena. If the prosecutor refuses to comply, the president can order him fired and find someone who will enforce his directive. The president can also grant himself an unconditional and complete pardon and bar any prosecution altogether. Each of these steps, taken alone or together, risks impeachment.

As a practical matter, the Supreme Court would rely on its own precedent and reasoning if confronted with this dispute. This means that it would hear the case and uphold and enforce a subpoena for Mr. Clinton's testimony. Therefore, this would leave Mr. Clinton with another bad option. He could become the first president to assert a Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination, which really means that the president of the United States refuses to state the truth under oath. If he "pleads the Fifth," Mr. Clinton would be acknowledging, at least tacitly, that he could be indicted while serving as president, or that the question is unsettled. Moreover, since the Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination belongs to individuals, and not the office of the presidency, it would become clear that Mr. Clinton is not attempting to protect the presidency but himself.

All of this makes you wonder how much longer this man can remain the leader of a great nation and a great people.

freerepublic.com



To: Greenpeace who wrote (17575)7/27/1998 11:34:00 PM
From: The Philosopher  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 20981
 
>You're telling
me that you want to indict the president for perjury in a case that doesn't exists?

Damn right I do. Perjury is perjury, whether the case is dismissed or not. Are you counter-suggesting, assuming arguendo that Clinton did purjure himself, that it's okay for the chief executive officer of the country, an officer of the court, the person responsible for the Department of Justice, and, by the way, the person with his finger on the nuclear trigger, to perjure himself as long as his lawyers can get the case dismissed eventually? Do you really want to make that argument?

>>Who among you hasn't lied about sex?

Frankly, my dear, I haven't. But more the point, who among us hasn't perjured himself about sex? I, for one, haven't. Have you? Would you???



To: Greenpeace who wrote (17575)7/28/1998 8:43:00 AM
From: Catfish  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 20981
 
Green Pee,

Check this out.

exchange2000.com



To: Greenpeace who wrote (17575)7/28/1998 10:43:00 AM
From: Zoltan!  Respond to of 20981
 
Green Pees:

You posts are tired and your arguments without merit. You can try to deny reality but facts are facts and Clinton's reign of error is ending in disgrace and he is approaching inevitable collapse. His lies cannot withstand analysis and will fail him in a venue where truth matters and he cannot finesse, the courts.

Enjoy the ride. America wins - your side is going down.

btw, hidden is yesterday's great news were two other good stories:

1) Carey, Clinton's good friend and the corrupt head of the Teamsters, was thrown out for embezzling funds and running a slush fund for the Dems. The trial should be interesting. Will Clinton testify?

2) Another one of Reno's aides has come forward saying that she is willfully misreading the law which requires her to appoint an IC to investigate all the illegal campaign fundraising by Clinton and Gore. Soon that mule's hand will be forced. Will Clinton testify?



To: Greenpeace who wrote (17575)7/29/1998 1:40:00 AM
From: Michael Elizabeth Chastain  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 20981
 

Did you ever tear that tag off a mattress when it clearly stated it was a violation of law? Would you want to be prosecuted for it?


Ok, I know that going after Greenpeace is like shooting fish in a barrel, but I haven't seen anyone bring this point up yet.

Greenpeace, have you ever actually read the tag on a mattress? Do you know what it clearly states? I have, and I do. My mattress tag states: not to be removed under penalty of law except by the consumer. It's part of a truth-in-labelling law, similar to food labelling. The law requires mattress manufacturers to put tags on their mattresses identifying the material in the mattress, and it forbids dealers from removing those tags in the store before selling to consumers.

Once you understand that, the mattress-tag law actually becomes a lot more sensible.

Indeed, I will continue your analogy: if Clinton had a consensual sexual relationship outside if his marriage, that's akin to him ripping the tag off his own mattress. But if he then lies about it under oath, that is akin to him being a furniture dealer, ripping the tag off a mattress in his inventory, and then proceeding to sell it in violation of the mattress tag law.

So much for the mattress-tag analogy.