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Politics : Clinton's Scandals: Is this corruption the worst ever? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Zeev Hed who wrote (5240)	9/12/1998 5:18:00 PM
From: Jim S	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 13994

Thus maybe it is not "black and white" but a bunch of shades of "grays". Perhaps you're right, Zeev. But, to me, anyway, they are some mighty light grays and some mighty dark grays. Clinton claims to be a Southern Baptist, so if you want to inject religious and cultural definitions of "sexual relations" into the discussion, let's remember that, too. (BTW, do you know why Baptists never have sex standing up? Someone might think they are dancing. Sorry if I offended any Baptists). I can only speculate about the different testimony concerning whether or not Clinton touched Lewinsky's breasts; that speculation boils down to who wins or loses if he did or didn't do the touching. Given Clinton's motivation and propensity to lie, I find it difficult to believe him about anything more important than the time of day (and even then, I'd double check at the first opportunity). jim

To: Zeev Hed who wrote (5240)	9/12/1998 5:34:00 PM
From: Joss	Respond to of 13994

Hi Zeev, I have a feeling that in some denominations, unless an intercourse is committed, it is not considered adultery or sexual relation (reminding me again of Carter sinning in his heart <VBG>), if that is the case, I surely can understand why he thought he was not committing adultery, nor did he think he was perjuring himself. The Judge in the Paula Jones trial told Clinton to answer according to the definition of sex contained in section (lets call it (a) since I cannot remember verbatum). Given this definition, one cannot make the argument that Clinton did not think he was perjuring himself. Read the text. He very well knew he was perjuring himself. As you say, he is trained in law and was given a definition by the court. Read the text of the report. If I can find the link...I will post it for you. IMHO, the only reason he is not sticking to the line "of no improper relations" is he finally saw he was caught. Now it is: I lied but not really...I'm sorry and ask for forgiveness but I will not admit for what. Steve

To: Zeev Hed who wrote (5240)	9/12/1998 5:38:00 PM
From: Sedohr Nod	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 13994

Zeev, It is not a shade of gray if you consider the President a military man as commander in chief (which i remember he pulled out that lame excuse at some point in the past). The Uniform Code of Military Justice has a phrase that has stuck with me for 30 years......"penetration no matter how slight, constitutes the act"......so non completion would not be excused under the UCMJ.....and frankly the thought process that makes the timing of ejaculation important in a matter like this...brings out serious questions about sanity.....

To: Zeev Hed who wrote (5240)	9/12/1998 9:32:00 PM
From: Skeeter Bug	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 13994

zeev, this is really simple to me. first, is oral sex a kind of sex? since the term "oral" is descriptive of the word that follows - "sex" it would appear to any unbiased person that oral sex is a kind, a form, of sex. what kind, what form of sex? oral, of course. now, bill can quibble all he wants about what "sexual relatuions" means. i think he has to claim the absurd to show, from his point of view, that he isn't a perjurer. why? he knows that is a felony and it is impeachable. well, let's get to his obvious perjury. maybe his self centeredness saw fit to blind him so he couldn't understand a basic definition. from the star report... >>During the deposition, the President's attorney, Robert Bennett, sought to limit questioning about Ms. Lewinsky. Mr. Bennett told Judge Susan Webber Wright that Ms. Lewinsky had executed "an affidavit which [Ms. Jones's lawyers] are in possession of saying that there is absolutely no sex of any kind in any manner, shape or form, with President Clinton." In a subsequent colloquy with Judge Wright, Mr. Bennett declared that as a result of "preparation of [President Clinton] for this deposition, the witness is fully aware of Ms. Lewinsky's affidavit."(21) The President did not dispute his legal representative's assertion that the President and Ms. Lewinsky had had "absolutely no sex of any kind in any manner, shape or form," nor did he dispute the implication that Ms. Lewinsky's affidavit, in denying "a sexual relationship," meant that there was "absolutely no sex of any kind in any manner, shape or form." In subsequent questioning by his attorney, President Clinton testified under oath that Ms. Lewinsky's affidavit was "absolutely true."(22) << the president said that the following was "absolutely true:" "absolutely no sex of any kind in any manner, shape or form." that is what ms lewinsky's afidavit said and mr clinton said it was "absolutely true." either oral SEX is not a kind or form of sex or bill is a perjurer. btw, when hookers have oral sex for money are they breaking the law? would you laugh if they said they weren't selling "sex?" would you argue to let all such prostitution convictions be overturned bc/ no "sex" was involved? i think you know the answer and just don't like it, for whatever reason. i don't care who bill does. i do care that our #1 leader undermines the very fabric of our society - our justice system. if he doesn't respect justice, if he doesn't respect the jusicial system then i don't trust him as president. if everyone did what bill did then this country's justice system falls apart. no justice system then we are not a country of any ideals worth having. this quote is ever so apt... >>"Yes, the President should resign. He has lied to the American people time and time again and betrayed their trust. He is no longer an effective leader. Since he has admitted guilt there is no reason to put the American people through an impeachment. He will serve absolutely no purpose in finishing out his term. The only possible solution is for the President to save some dignity and resign."<< yes, william jefferson clinton was wise beyond his years when he uttered thos words regarding president nixon. i just don't believe that president clinton has any dignity to save.