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Strategies & Market Trends : Gorilla and King Portfolio Candidates -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: avanti77 who wrote (11293)	11/28/1999 9:48:00 AM
From: Jill	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 54805

SnDiego, I'll come out of lurk mode to say I agree 100% that this thread, which has extremely valuable information, is reflexively sexist, and it's no fun posting here after awhile, and I say this as the former "token" woman on the so-called "roundtable." who didn't even realize how uncomfortable she was until the PM fracas w/ Frank. There are few overt flames here but it is the only mostly-male clubhouse on SI. This comment in no way detracts from the excellent effort Stan just made with the portfolios, or the wonderful posts of Mike Buckley, or any of the other posters who offer up concrete information, but it is too bad that the guys can't see how ingrained this is on the thread, and that they've lost valuable posters as a result. As for Groupthink, when a stock does well by anyone, or a small basket of stocks, it's hard for them to remain objective--anywehre on SI or in the world. Where I see groupthink on this thread is that the concept of traditional gorilla gaming is too tightly adhered to--PUBLICLY. So "senior" posters who for instance are involved in options, non-gorilla stocks, or any investing strategies that diverge from this, rarely discuss it, as if it's forbidden fruit. That's silly. Other threads are messier, but they're less self-congratulatory, and they tolerate more diverse approaches--witness the in-depth discussion of options on the Qualcomm thread recently. Again, that doesn't detract from the essential value of this thread. But for me the old-boys clubby stuff is a fatal flaw. I'm still waiting for the day Frank will publicly acknowledge this, perhaps apologize, and set a different agenda. If that day never comes, I'll just lurk once a week. Jill

To: avanti77 who wrote (11293)	11/28/1999 10:08:00 AM
From: Uncle Frank	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 54805

>> I've noted "Uncle" Frank, Lindy, and other pre-boomers rarely respond to entries made by women. Please allow me to address that deficiency by responding to your post, sndiego. The increased rate of posting on g&k by newcomers of both sexes has exceeded my personal welcome wagon's bandwidth, and I've relied to the thread elders to assist in the effort, though reluctantly as I find great pleasure in it. I went back through the 10 posts you've made since you joined us on 11/6, and was pleased to find responses from 5 members of the Round Table (Merlin, Squire J, Squire B, Apollo, and Artemis). I'd like to belatedly add my personal welcome. I was sensitized to the double standard issue by my trial, and have been treading cautiously ever since. I raised the issue of Group Think yesterday as a reaction to a critical PM I received from a investor who used to be a frequent poster on g&k. If the issue wasn't of concern to me, it would have been easier to ignore her comments. I hope I can count of you and the other well-educated women investors who have remained on g&k to help us pre-boomers adapt to the new paradigm. Maybe some of us old dogs can still learn a new trick <g>. Best regards, uf

To: avanti77 who wrote (11293)	11/28/1999 10:09:00 AM
From: Mike Buckley	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 54805

One of the gratifying side effects of our self-selection is that we automatically do not attract the type of thread mates that we do not like on many of the other threads. You have all noticed the type, I am sure, who makes a couple of posts here, don't like the answers they get, and quit posting! Actually, I've noticed some people who post a couple of times and no longer want to post if they immediately run into disagreement. On the other hand, there are a lot of people participating in the thread who thrive on disagreement as a source of new perspective and information. Those people take on the challenge of using disagreement to fine-tune one's understanding of the topic being discussed. The best participants are those who amiably agree to disagree. --Mike Buckley

To: avanti77 who wrote (11293)	11/28/1999 10:22:00 AM
From: LindyBill	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 54805

Unfortunately for the thread, some of the good old boys have a double standard, that is forgivably not obvious to them, You are probably right, sndiego. Since most of the posters adopt names that make it difficult to tell what sex they are, I am not sure this is deliberate. However, I think any 65 year old male, such as myself, who posts to these threads, is kidding himself if he claims he is not "sexist". I know, in my case, I simply don't respond to posts that don't interest me, or that I don't think I can be helpful on. I always try to respond to any post that is directed to me. If nothing else, I think it is only polite to do so. I find I am posting much less since I have dropped down to one stock. There's a lot of massaging of each other's egos That's true. And nothing wrong with it, from my standpoint. I think everyone comes to these threads looking to make friends, as we do in every thing in life that we participate in. We get used to each other, needle each other, and, since we have anywhere from 6 months to 2 years of posting to each other, tend to be "clickish". You will notice that the original group of posters to the Q thread started a new thread for themselfs when we "newbies" showed up. They were right to do so, we did not fit in with them. They had a different mindset than the new group that started posting. The number one complaint of Dancers who want to join in at the clubs I go to is that we are "clickish". When I travel around the country dancing, it is very tough to be accepted by the group at the dance I attend. I have to "put it on the floor" to be accepted. I have noticed that new members of this thread that are accepted are the ones who "put it on the floor", in dancing parlance. They are the ones who post interesting insights, and do their homework before they post.

To: avanti77 who wrote (11293)	11/28/1999 10:43:00 AM
From: DownSouth	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 54805

sndiego, at the risk of fanning the flames of interpersonal dissonance, I must take exception to your post. Might I suggest that posters quit posting because this thread has become like a club of the "good old boys." You mistake civility, good writing, and well developed rapport for a club. You mistake a group of successful, mature individuals who have the time to indulge in this thread productively as "good old boys." There's a lot of massaging of each other's egos, and I've noted "Uncle" Frank, Lindy, and other pre-boomers rarely respond to entries made by women. You mistake appreciation for the work that these gentlemen put into this thread as "massaging of each other's egos". I am not sure how you come to the conclusion that women are not responded to here. Usually the sex of a person is not apparent. On occasion when a poster's response was sanctioned as inappropriate (inflammatory) the poster became very defensive and lead a revolt. The inflammatory nature of the poster's text was not a result of their sex. The sanctioning of that poster was not a result of their sex either. Unfortunately for the thread, some of the good old boys have a double standard, that is forgivably not obvious to them, but apparent to some well-educated women who have simply opted to go elsewhere. I am a boomer and I am sensitive to the issues you raise. I simply have not seen them here. It is unfortunate for the thread that some women and some men have left who could have contributed and learned here. The cases about which I am somewhat familiar are, in my opinion, the result of personalities, not sex nor insensitivity. I hope that you will not leave us, and I regret that some choose to play the gender card as a weapon when others disagree with them or attempt to enforce the mores of this thread.

To: avanti77 who wrote (11293)	11/28/1999 11:45:00 AM
From: Eric L	Respond to of 54805

sndiego, << I've noted "Uncle" Frank, Lindy, and other pre-boomers rarely respond to entries made by women >> I had never noticed that and have seen some evidence to the contrary. I also a pre-boomer (born on D-Day) and have had some lively dialogue with women as well as the men on this thread and in related PM's. IMO, age or gender have nothing to do with participation on this thread, and I for one, hope you hang in to examine this thought about the existence of a "double standard" a bit closer. As for "good old boys", I hope you are not including our respected contributor, Justin. <g> - Eric -