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To: flatsville who wrote (75166)	3/4/2001 11:09:00 AM
From: Les H	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 436258

The federal government is creating this mess. They're deliberately trying to import bodies for cheap labor and to try bring in more bodies to improve the worker-to-retiree ratio in the coming years as the boomers enter SS age. The data below is somewhat obsolete as a much higher percentage of the immigrants are on assistance and half have no medical insurance. ncpa.org Is it rational to have to spend $ 10,00 per kid per year for public school because you're importing illiterates? Is it rational that you're importing renters who squat two to four families per apartment and don't contribute to the local property taxes that subsidize their education, transportation gridlock, and suburban sprawl?

To: flatsville who wrote (75166)	3/4/2001 11:44:33 AM
From: Ilaine	Read Replies (7) \| Respond to of 436258

What have you really said when you say that the intentions are good? Everyone knows that. But we've fallen into the trap of unintended consequences. I see it as a type of ecological issue. We thought we were creating a safety net but what we created was an ecological niche to be exploited. By providing poor families with food, clothing, shelter and medical care, in perpetuity, we triggered the Tragedy of the Commons. >>The theory of the Tragedy of the Commons states that when a resource is collectively owned by a group of people, each will exploit the resource, overusing it, and thus ultimately destroying the resource. In other words, everyone acts as a free rider, ignoring the group's collective interests in favor of their own. The idea dates to an 1833 essay by William Forster Lloyd. He noticed that in a common pasture owned by all of the villagers, each villager overgrazed the pasture, ruining it for everyone. In 1968, Garret Hardin applied the Tragedy of the Commons theory to population growth. The idea is that having children is beneficial to individuals, who will therefore have many kids, but leads to overpopulation in society, which has numerous negative effects.<< library.thinkquest.org The very best description of the social problems thus created was a Pulitizer Prize winning series of essays by Leon Dash, printed in the Washington Post in 1994. He wrote about a woman named Rosa Lee, a heroin addict on welfare, most of whose children wound up welfare, too. washingtonpost.com The intention was to provide a safety net, not a way of life. You can say all you want about welfare reform - I am working right now on a custody and visitation matter between an unmarried couple - the man has five other children he doesn't see, the woman has two children by different men, and is living in government subsidized housing, has government subsidized day care, and government subsidized health care - but she does have a job! So you could say that's an improvement. The way out of poverty is internalizing a lot of rules that aren't a lot of fun. Suppress your libido, or use birth control, or get married. Finish high school, go to college or learn a trade. Get a job, go to work on time every day, and do your best. Get a bank account, balance your checkbook, pay your bills on time, pay your taxes on time. The people I feel compassion for are the mentally ill, physically disabled, and the aged and infirm. I don't feel compassion for the woman I described, and I am not very impressed by the man, either. They're sucking resources from the people I do feel compassion for because they are selfish, short-sighted, and think it is their right.

To: flatsville who wrote (75166)	3/4/2001 3:08:11 PM
From: Tunica Albuginea	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 436258

flatsville, you are confusing transient natural disasters , of which the Great Depression was one, in need of emergent , but transient Gooberment support, with life's permanent disasters, illegitimacy, divorce, unemployment, poverty,illness, cruelty, all being resolved by The Big Nipple in The Sky religious philosophy of Goobermentalism ( such as Anglicanism, Confucianism,Hinduism,Catholicism ). Goobermantlism is the New modern religion in America. Goobermenatlism will solve all the problems. Instead we are finding out that Goobermentalism in the last 50 years has - destroyed inner cities -destroyed the inner city family -made it easier to destroyed all families ( 505 divorce rate ) -destroyed our Wealth ( 3 giant Market crashes 74,87,98 &2000) -increased illegitimacy (20 year olds with 7 children ) -increased welfare -destroyed Education -increased crime -increased drug abuse -increased our debt to untold levels Come on flatsville, we can do better can't we? Let's not throw good money after bad. At least, let's give the money back to Americans and let them solve the thousands of problems that afflict us daily. After all, before and after the Great Depression, this country was in a splendid shape. Haarlem High School had graduation rates and grades about as good as the rest of NYPublic Schools. I say, let us get rid of the new religion in America: Governmentalism, it has failed. Give the power back to the people and let them choose which is the best religion and dictates to follow to help others and themselves, back later, TA