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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: one_less who wrote (14832)	5/29/2001 1:52:10 PM
From: Lane3	Respond to of 82486

Maybe I misunderstood what you were looking for. I meant only to offer some examples, not an all inclusive list. I wasn't looking for anything in particular. I just wanted to know what you were giving me so I could analyze it in context. The list had no title and I wasn't sure what the title should be. And my morals, by any standard, aren't in such poor shape that I can't distinguish the do's from the don'ts. <g> Karen

To: one_less who wrote (14832)	5/29/2001 4:42:12 PM
From: Lane3	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

2. Forgive the wrongs of others who have a) expressed sincere remorse, b) made reparations for their wrong doing, c) have shown a sincere intent eliminate the wrong in the future. The list looks like mom and apple pie to me. And suitably secular as was your charge. I can't argue with your designation of any of them as right and wrong. The only concern I have is with number 2. I think that forgiving can be very therapeutic and I think that what you have laid out is a healthy approach to take. I'm just not sure it belongs on this list for a couple of reasons. There's an implication in it that the refusal or inability to forgive is a wrong. The individual may suffer more for not having forgiven but I don't think we, his fellows, should be judging him for that. I tend to look at forgiving as more healthy and not forgiving as less healthy but I have trouble calling them right and wrong. The other reason I have a concern about this one is that we're judging people by what's in their hearts and minds rather than what actions they're taking. In number 3 you talk about showing mercy, which is an act. That's more appropriate for the list than forgiveness, which is a state of mind. I don't think society wants to be in the business of judging people on what's inside them, only on how they demonstrate it. Karen

To: one_less who wrote (14832)	5/29/2001 5:08:45 PM
From: Lane3	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 82486

Over the weekend while I was anticipating your list, I did some noodling on my own. I think top down so I'm not much of a list maker. If I ever do make lists, I immediately categorize them and drop the detail. Can't help it. I'm just right brained. Anyway, here's a first cut at what is intended to be a comprehensive list of what is wrong behavior. If it's not specified, then it's either right or neutral behavior. You'll find I can count only up to three. (Can I synthesize or what!) Number three is rougher than one and two. I haven't tested this yet. Just throwing it out for what it's worth. Karen's Criteria for Wrongdoing 1. Violence except in defense of life or serious harm 2. Breach of trust 3. Denigration of the individual human dignity of one's fellows Karen P.S. Greg, just so you don't have to wonder, pedophilia is covered by all three.

To: one_less who wrote (14832)	5/30/2001 9:00:23 AM
From: epicure	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 82486

The truth can be very harmful. There are many instances when the truth is cruel. I don't thing truthfulness has anything at all to do with morality, or righteousness, or "goodness". So I totally disagree with numbers one. The only rule I really need is compassion. If I have compassion I will know when and when not to tell the truth- of I'll have a good guess. Sometimes self preservation must over-rule compassion (in cases of self defense, for example). Self preservation and compassion. Bookends to a happy life if you can find a good balance between them. (imo) That seems to be where most people are - not matter what religion they are. Of course some people are more toward one side or the other, less balanced.