Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Politics : Formerly About Applied Materials -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Sun Tzu who wrote (51888)	9/11/2001 6:49:38 PM
From: Fred Levine	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 70976

Sun Tzu( and your name was from a great military theorist)-- I agree entirely with your sensitive and sophisticated reasoning. In the opposite way, I am repelled by the lack of logic of Lone Star. However, until Reagan retaliated for Libyan terrorism by going after Khadaffi, Libya played politics-terrorism as if they were in a chess game where their opponent did not have any moves. Libyan terrorism stopped after they were bombed. Altho the causes of this act of war are mainly political and religious, the military issue should be addressed. W should announce that any country that supports or allows for terrorism is committing an aggressive act and will be held responsible. They, then, will have the responsibility for policeing. We know that terrorism is encouraged in Iraq, Iran, Palestine, Syria, Sudan and Afganistan-- and perhaps other countries. Our response should not be to hurt innocent civilians-we would be no better than they if we did, but to give the leaders of these countries notice that their personal asses will be held accountable. We should then do what Reagan did to Khaddafi. We have the technology to do so. The knowledge that we have counter-moves will be a highly motivating force for them to curb terrorism. It seemed to moderate Khadaffi. In addition, and many will know more about this than I if this is practical, we should equip planes with security devices that pilots--like some punch-in code--that pilots have to frequently press. If they don't, the automatic pilot should kick in. I can't start my Saturn without punching the keybox. However, before we retailiate willy-nilly--which may have already begun in Kabul--I think Sun's advice is well taken. We have enough hate in the world without adding enemies. However, we almost certainly agree that national security is a prime function of government. Anyone who threatens us should know there will be a response before they begin. My son had a meeting that morning in the WTC that he didn't go to. I'm sure we'll know people who were not as fortunate and my heart is with them. fred

To: Sun Tzu who wrote (51888)	9/11/2001 7:05:34 PM
From: Pete Young	Respond to of 70976

Sun, I agree with much of what you have said, again, reiterating that we need to use Teddy Roosevelt's "Big Stick" now against those that would visit such a horror on us. (I keep seeing that second plane in my mind's eye and I doubt I'll be sleeping well tonight.) However, maybe we need to revisit some of our ways of living and policies. For example, do we really need to put so many of our eggs in one basket by creating workplaces that hold 50k people? I would wager that most of the poor folks that worked in those buildings were information workers and we certainly have the means to spread them out across the landscape by letting them work from home. Why present such a large target for the incredible assholes that have done such a horrible thing? (I was up at market open and found myself crying with rage when I saw that second plane hit.) I don't believe that we can insure that such an attack couldn't happen again other than turning the country into a virtual prison that would signal the victory of the terrorists over our way of life. Secondly, such an dispersed approach would reduce the amount of energy resources we all use and are so dependent on from the Middle East ---probably source of our current rage and agony. We could also bring more pressure on Israel to start treating it's subject people's more humanely, instead of turning a blind eye to what increasingly appears to me, at least, a reenactment of the horror visited on the Jewish people in WWII. Further, building more large weapon's systems, as a previous poster alluded to would do nothing but throw good money after bad. After all, we don't have a target to shoot at, much less a large one---unfortunately. If it could be proved that a country was behind today's tragedy, be sure I would support a selective removal of a major city in that country--with some forewarning, by the use of our nuclear arsenal. But that's not what we have here, so far and embarking on building more obsolete and expensive systems will just subtract from the resources we could use for a win-win solution. We should concentrate our efforts on becoming less centralized, and more like this medium we communicate on---self healing and uninterruptible. We need to act smart, and be more clever than those murderers today---and not fall into their trap they have laid for us, trying to get us to overreact against innocent people to radicalize the many that currently support us, and just want a decent shot at a good life. And certainly not by turning up the volume on policies and ways of life that led us to this horror today.

To: Sun Tzu who wrote (51888)	9/11/2001 9:20:38 PM
From: Proud_Infidel	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 70976

Sun, Excellent post; perfect combination of reason, logic and compassion. But there is another side to this equation. If I lived my life in such a way that actually drove someone to hate me so much that that he'd rather die than to see me alive, then it would be very ignorant and oblivious of me not to question my ways. I'd have to understand what the issues are before I can decide what the correct answer is. AND PS Let us not forget that the Taliban came to power in Afghanistan under direct US support. Should we not carry some of the blame for all those Afghans who gravely suffered at the hands of the Taliban? How would you have felt about the Afghans, if they had placed a Taliban like regime in the US? Tolstoy once said "so many people talk of changing the world; but never do they talk of changing themselves." I am in the minority I am sure in saying I believe there should be no reprisals as violence can never be justified. Over time this lesson will and must be learned if we are to go on as a race. We have had thousands of years though in which the tit for tat lessons of war have not yet taught us that violence will never bring a change to men's hearts. Brian

To: Sun Tzu who wrote (51888)	9/11/2001 11:20:44 PM
From: Gary Ng	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 70976

Sun Tzu, Bravo !You deserve this great name for you well thought out posts. Just wish everyone on this world can learn something from this, not just politics but even in handling personal matters. gary

To: Sun Tzu who wrote (51888)	9/12/2001 1:21:52 AM
From: Jacob Snyder	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 70976

re: "If I lived my life in such a way that actually drove someone to hate me so much that that he'd rather die than to see me alive, then it would be very ignorant and oblivious of me not to question my ways. I'd have to understand what the issues are before I can decide what the correct answer is." You are a moral relativist. You try to see the other guys point of view. If there is a problem, your first instinct is to wonder what you did to provoke or cause the problem, and how you can adjust yourself to make everyone comfortable with you. The U.S. went through a flirtation with Moral Relativism, in the 1960s and 1970s. But it is a concept foreign to our national nature, and we have shucked it off. Our self-confidence is back. Today, most Americans are willing to say there is a recognizable difference between Good and Evil, and Evil should be identified and attacked. So, this is not the time for introspection and self-criticism. This is not the time to try to see the other guy's point of view. The other guy is Evil. He has hurt us. This is a time to hunt him down, and hurt him back, hurt him so badly, and repeatedly and preemptively, so he has neither the will nor the ability to hurt us any more. That's the American Way. It's ugly, but it works.

To: Sun Tzu who wrote (51888)	9/12/2001 8:45:19 AM
From: semi2000	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 70976

ST, I am happy for you that you are safe. Mostly I have not much against your theory, however ask these questions to your islamic friends, 1) were they disgusted by these attacks 2) who do they support US or palestine 3) are they fanatic? you need to observer their stance, life activities .. 4) what is the chance these people and their children who growup and take critical jobs in us and they turn out to be fanatic? you be the judge 5) Peace in western world is gone for ever but it could rot from iside out if immegration policies are lax towards fanatic people (above 3,4) who would destabilize US economically and politically if we ignore these signs Action and reaction are just Newton's explanations, but they are by nature, bending them with sentiment is trying to change the laws of nature. There is big difference between one plane down, 4 planes down and then there is BIG difference between thousands of people down. If you are driven to preserving democracy and rights will provide energy to act against these criminals and it will be for the just cause. Find the evidance and then take action. God bless America.