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Politics : War -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Thomas M. who wrote (10810)	1/11/2002 12:53:38 PM
From: lorne	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 23908

Hello Thomas. You said..." There is extensive reference to an established, powerful Philistine presence in the old Testament, so it obviously predates the Israelites. I don't think what happened thousands of years ago is particularly relevant, though."..... Until 911 I really knew very little about the area but since then there is constant talk about how the Jews are on arab land. So I was trying to understand why this is said. In a previous post I asked ..." What determines ownership of lands....History, who was there first....War, who is more powerful or maybe religion??".... In looking around in some history sites it appears to me that the Jews have been in this area for as long as the Arabs. And also the Jews have been run off their lands or slaughtered by the Arab countries for as long as history goes back so it kind of looks like its a hatred thing more than any other reason. So is this hatred thing still going on to-day? Anyway it appears to me that over time the Jews were finally forced into the area which is now the state of Israel and this looks like a last stand, they are not going to be pushed any further. I agree that as you say ..." I don't think what happened thousands of years ago is particularly relevant, though."... It should not be relevant to my way of thinking but I don't think those folks over there think the same way I do. Also it looks to me that the Jews are quite willing to have Arabs living within their borders but are the Arab's willing to have Jews living in their countries. So to me it looked as though what is going on is a hate thing that has nothing to do with anything legal, its like the Arabs have said that the Jews must be pushed into the sea. Going to see if I can find anything for Old Testament Period. Lorne

To: Thomas M. who wrote (10810)	1/13/2002 12:07:40 PM
From: lorne	Read Replies (5) \| Respond to of 23908

Thomas..you said..." There is extensive reference to an established, powerful Philistine presence in the old Testament, so it obviously predates the Israelites. I don't think what happened thousands of years ago is particularly relevant, though.".... If original ownership or who was there first is not relevant to ownership today then IYO what is.? Power,war, the ability to keep the land by force. Population where the majority rules? Still looking for info as to whether philistines predated Israelites. Definition of philistine from oxford dictionary. A member of a people in ancient Palestine who were enemies of the Israelites. 2)an uncultured person, one whose interests are material and commonplace. having or showing uncultured tastes. Lorne

To: Thomas M. who wrote (10810)	1/13/2002 5:12:08 PM
From: lorne	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 23908

Thomas. Your post..." There is extensive reference to an established, powerful Philistine presence in the old Testament, so it obviously predates the Israelites".... FYI... Gath of the Philistines was one of the five main cities of the Philistines. The Philistines, a people who settled in the Southern Levant during the early part of the Iron Age I (c. 1200 BCE), were one of the "Sea Peoples", an enigmatic group of peoples who appeared in the eastern Mediterranean during the final stages of the Late Bronze Age and the beginning of the Iron Age. The Philistines, who appear to have originated from the Aegean region, brought with them a unique culture, highly influenced by their Aegean origins. During the first centuries of their occupation of the region of "Philistia" (the Southern Coastal Plain of current-day Israel and the "Gaza Strip"), they became the predominant local power, representing a major threat to the other ethnic groups in the region, including the then nascent Israelite tribes. The biblical narrative describing the intense conflict between the Philistines and the Israelites apparently mirrors this situation. Traditions such as the stories of Samson, David & Goliath, etc., are all to be understood in this context. The very negative view of the Philistines that is portrayed in the Bible is clearly due to this rivalry. In fact, the archaeological remains, both from Tell es-Safi and from other Philistine sites reveal a rich and sophisticated culture. faculty.biu.ac.il