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To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (10919)	6/2/2003 3:18:27 PM
From: Paul Viapiano	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 306849

Another casualty of prop 13 was the schools in CA which went from first to worst in 30 short years. Lizzie...you go that right. California's elementary school reading scores were almost last or tied for last in the nation several years ago. The "whole language" method of reading education was bought into hook, line and sinker. It didn't work... Bi-lingual education was forced on the system...it didn't and doesn't work... Compulsory passing of students to the next grade level when they should be failing...it doesn't work... Buying into the theory that you shouldn't harm a student's self-esteem by giving them a low grade...it doesn't work... There's only one thing that works and that is hard work by the student, parental participation and encouragement, and not babysitting and coddling students. I was educated by some great teachers who said "the work is either done or not done, there are no in-betweens". When it's B&W like that, the kids learn there is no grey area and they thrive in the framework it creates. One of my favorite teacher's (post-college extension) most inspiring quotes was, "Your competition is perfect."

To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (10919)	6/2/2003 3:50:55 PM
From: Mr. Sunshine	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 306849

<<The only people who really support prop 13 are the elderly people...>> I really support Prop 13. Does that mean I am elderly? I am only 42! Lizzie, as you said this was debated extensively a few months ago on this board. I welcome the different viewpoints, and now understand a few anti prop 13 arguements that I did not before. On the whole, however, Prop 13 is a good thing. It controls out of control government spending by limiting taxes (If not for Prop 13, Wilson would be solving the current budget crisis by simply doubling our property taxes), and prevents some from having to move from a neighborhood they have lived in for years simply because they can no longer afford property taxes. I know few people, elderly or not, who disagree with it, except a few on this board. The theory that Prop 13 has caused the appreciation of California Real Estate is ridiculous. 1. California property was rapidly increasing in value BEFORE prop 13; in fact that was the main reason behind inacting it; 2. Property values have been increasing nationwide, and most states are without prop 13. 3. Property values decreased in California in the early 90's - How could this have happened if prop 13 was causing appreciation? 4. Property values are determined by what someone is willing to pay for the property. Since the buyer does not immediately get the benefits of Prop 13, it does not influence the purchase price. 5. Property values, on average, have gone up approximately 5% per year in California over the past 40 years. Prop 13 allows a 2% increase in property taxes, so the tax advantage is only 3% per year. Nice, especially when compounded, but not the giveaway that you make it out to be. 6. The advantages of Prop 13 have been somewhat reduced by the issuance of special voter approved bonds and other fees that are not limited by Prop 13. <<Another casualty of prop 13 was the schools in CA which went from first to worst in 30 short years.>> Possibly. I was in 11th grade when Prop 13 was passed, and I still remember the teachers being EXTREMELY upset about it. They were very vocal in the campaign leading up to the election, and even urged us to ask our parents to vote against it. One or two were even on the verge of crying after it passed. Nontheless, California's school problems go way beyond prop 13. We are not lowest in spending per student now, nor were we highest in spending per student before prop 13. Blaming the California Educational system's problems on Prop 13 is a cop-out.

To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (10919)	6/2/2003 5:36:29 PM
From: Wyätt Gwyön	Respond to of 306849

Sortof a statewide version of the social security situation, imo, where one demographic group benefits at the expense of others. yep, helps the middle class and rich. Another casualty of prop 13 was the schools in CA which went from first to worst in 30 short years. yep, hurts the poor and helps the rich. what else are politics for?