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Politics : Should God be replaced? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Solon who wrote (20107)	5/19/2005 1:36:32 PM
From: Greg or e	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 28931

Holy butt kicking Batman! That was a desperate and pathetic attempt to defend the indefensible. Every single point you obfuscated or outright lied about. I don't have time until after the weekend to document your weaseling, but rest assured I will. You are giving Weasels a bad name and giving all potential Weasels second thoughts.

To: Solon who wrote (20107)	5/25/2005 1:00:55 PM
From: Greg or e	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 28931

"I have never said the fetus was simply an egg--you idiot." Lies! all lies! yet again, and then compounded by lying about your lying. "Disposing of an unwanted egg occurs naturally and frequently--but it can also be induced in myriad ways. If the egg is unwanted then people should be encouraged and medically assisted to dispose of the egg at the earliest possible time before it "quickens"." Message 21325760 Your statements are plain and intentionally false. Quickening happens at conception. Before conception the "egg" is just an egg. After conception the proper term is Zygote or fetus. By lying about the nature of the fetus you think you can justify killing it but you have been exposed for the lier that you are. <<<"Many internationally-known geneticists and biologists have testified that human life begins at conception. In 1981 (April 23-24) a Senate Judiciary Subcommittee held hearings on the very question: When does human life begin? Following are testimonies from two of the doctors who testified: 1. Dr. Hymie Gordon, Chairman of the Department of Genetics at the Mayo Clinic, said: "By all the criteria of modern molecular biology, life is present from the moment of conception." 2. Dr. McCarthy de Mere, a medical doctor and law professor at the University of Tennessee, testified: "The exact moment of the beginning of personhood and of the human body is at the moment of conception.">>> ............................................................... "Your "the egg is a person" argument is not really an argument. It is just a boring mantra that addresses nothing. The egg is the exclusive PROPERTY of the woman and her partner. Society ought to have no interest whatsoever until that egg becomes individualized according to rational criteria." siliconinvestor.com Notice the quotes and the lack of documentation. I never said an egg was a person. What I said is that the fertilized egg or Zygote is a Human Being and I asked you "So what is the difference between a human being and a person????" siliconinvestor.com A query you did not answer except to beg the question by listing a couple of arbitrary criteria that apply equally to many "Persons" that we cannot kill, and calling the fetus a parasite. If intentionally putting statements I did not make into quotation marks is not lying then what is? BTW "rational criteria" conclusively proves that "individualized" life begins at conception. Your criteria are all arbitrary and subjective. ............................................................... <<<it would be helpful if you picked one and stayed with it>>> I guess you realized that the "potentially human" argument wouldn't fly so you dropped it. I think that was wise. "They were just as potentially human when they were the wind and the rain and the breakfasts that turned into eggs and sperm as they are potentially human AS egg and sperm. Message 21313440 So now in your clarified statement it's a "potential Child", but as you noted; "If potentiality was the critical point then we could justify killing everybody because everyone is potentially (and most certainly) returning to the soil. Obviously--what we WILL become as our potential is realized--is not a sound basis for ascribing value to life forms." Message 21325760 So your clarified statement is based on what are self-admittedly unsound reasoning! "Are you getting it, yet?! An egg is a potential child but still remains an egg! Society ought not to accord "rights" to an egg--nor to anything else which is inseparable (at the time) from the woman's body. You see, greg or e--this would lead to contradiction and conflict." I'm getting it, and you are begging it. The "EGG" is not an egg after fertilization (as I have repeatedly shown) It's a Human Being and is afforded "rights" on that basis. The contradictions are all yours and they will not go away just because you intentionally use false and misleading terms to disenfranchise certain Human Beings of their right to life. ................................................................ <<<If all you want to do is hurl insults then two can play that game. Try introducing some cogent thinking and rational argumentation and leave the condescension and gratuitous insults aside. I bet you once that you could not do it and I won that bet. Care to prove me wrong? Go ahead; I bet you can't :)>>> <<<I bet you once that you could not do it and I won that bet.>>> "You are a liar. Show me where and when." Message 21317939 ............................................................ <<<You asked for it you got it. 3/24/2005 12:05:16 PM Message 21165251 "<<<Insults, are like Lays potato chips for you. I bet you can't post more than once without personal insults.>>>" How quickly they forget! You can apologize any time you like.>>> Having demonstrated that you are the liar instead of admitting the error you continue the personal attacks and intensify them hoping nobody will notice. LOL! Usually when you are in a hole you should stop digging but not you "Why; (if you believe that a fetus has intrinsic Human value after it develops brain function,) do you not oppose abortion after this point?" "I said neither of those things. You either have a comprehension problem, an integrity problem--or both. I have said repeatedly (and you keep pretending to have missed it) that I do not support abortion as birth control. I support the RIGHT to terminate a pregnancy." It's clear that you support partial birth abortion just as freely as you do the morning after pill! You are the one who keeps using qualifiers such as "mindless egg" to justify your position so don't blame me for your poor argumentation as a full term fetus is neither mindless, or an egg, yet you would not object to it's death at any point in the pregnancy for any reason the mother decided! So all the bluster and smoke and mirrors about "mindless eggs" is just that, pure bull-sh-t! <<<Since we both agree that killing children is wrong, then the next point is the actual birth. If you find that inflammatory, then that should be a clue for you that your position is inconsistent>>> "You have gone into your own fantasy world again! A fertilized egg is not a child! A child is a creature that a woman gives BIRTH to and separates from her body. Nobody passed out cigars when you were an egg or a fetus. It was not until you were BORN that you became the child of someone." Again try to read for comprehension instead of just waiting to speak. My statement does not indicate a belief that a fertilized egg is a "child" as if there were simultaneous developmental stages. Read it again. "I support the RIGHT to terminate a pregnancy at ANY time. But BECAUSE I believe that abortions should be done immediately if the potential mother is going to terminate pregnancy--THEREFORE, I speak of the fertilized egg as being the earliest possible opportunity." Always the word games with you! There is a difference between "should" and must. The context of your statement clearly states that pregnancy may be terminated at "ANY time" up to and including birth. That being the case, it is completely disingenuous of you to insist on concentrating on the earliest state of development. If you only supported abortion up to the end of the first trimester then that would be the logical point at which we would concentrate because beyond that, we would be in agreement. So, my statement stands unanswered. "There are many things that are not kind or beneficent while yet being lawful. For instance, I have a right to raise the rent to my tenant (if I had one) even though they barely have enough to eat as it is." Last time I checked you were not permitted to kill your Tenant, but even if it were it would be immoral and unethical to do so, and so it is with legal abortion which kills an innocent Human Being! "Using "fertilized egg" IS neutral and DOES avoid the inflammatory rhetoric that you prefer. It IS accurate and you HAVE been "raging"." <<<Your language is not neutral, it's not even accurate and calling you on that is not raging>>> You can't be serious. As I just pointed out you support abortion at "ALL times" and you have consistently and intentionally used false and misleading language such as "mindless egg" to obscure the truly horrific facts surrounding the killing of innocent Human Beings. Show some chicken guarding guts for a change and a little honesty while you're at it. <<<Stop spinning your wheels and your wheels will stop spinning!>>> "I am not spinning my wheels. I am responding to one who is (or pretends to be) an idiot." Would you like another chip?