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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: cnyndwllr who wrote (184507)	4/3/2006 3:48:01 PM
From: Maurice Winn	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Ed, I enjoy your posts, which are always very reasonable. We all have bung ideas. Some have more than others. They have a lot of problems in life. Some are just unlucky. There's no rule of life that says people have to have any luck at all. Ideas are awfully sticky to ego and are more or less representative of our ego. Stubborn stupid people have excellent ego but poor identification of reality. They go down in flames, unless they are lucky. So far, the war has gone about how I guessed. 110 minutes to win the actual war, then a long guerilla operation run from the back room or cellar. I even got the number of Americans dead about right. I thought there would be more Iraqis killed though [and I didn't guess so many would be by each other]. I advised against the attack and said it would be much more profitable to reconstitute the UN into a NUN and work more from that direction rather than an arrogant PNAC "We are the biggest ape on the planet and can kick any butt" approach. "How to win friends and influence people" doesn't include a chapter on "Kicking their heads in". But if Americans wanted to join the dark ages and overthrow Saddam and occupy Iraq, it was okay by me. In jungle rules, dog eat dog is how it goes. The USA is [generally] a much nicer dog than the Saddamistas [unless you live in My Lai, get rolling thundered, shocked and awed, or were the family recently eliminated in reprisal for the roadside bomb attack]. Similarly with Iran. If the USA wants to attack Iran, I don't mind. Iranian Islamic Jihad swears to kill me, so I don't mind returning the favour. I definitely don't want to see Iranian nuclear bombs. Maybe Khan was supplying. I don't see why not. Maybe they already have some, or near enough, and the nuclear power plant is a red herring. I don't think of democracy as somehow sacred. Germans chose Nazi policies by voting. Iranians choose Islamic Jihad. Mob rule is mob rule and innocent bystander minorities will be savaged, whether they are negroes in the slave fields, or Jews in dhimmitude. When mobs go manic, which they do, they are horrific, even if they are American. After a while, mobs give it away though while dictators don't. That's the good thing about democracy. King George II and Saddam and Adolf will go down in the bunker rather than change their minds. Mqurice

To: cnyndwllr who wrote (184507)	4/3/2006 4:19:47 PM
From: michael97123	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Tony Zinni obviously got it right from the getgo. If you saw him on Meet The Press you would agree with him 99% of the time, except when he said that now that the war is in progress, we have to do everything in our power not to lose it, because thats how important its become. My views on our getting into the war have come full circle but how do we just bug out in the face of what someone like Zinni has to say? I will support bugging out if the iraqis cant get a new PM in place over the next week or two. But i continue to remember the american mom mourning her sons death in vietnam in the wars waning days, saying how do you allow or justify the deaths of the soldiers after you recognzie all is lost. I would like to help these iraqis--but they must give me a new regime first and if they do, we must set in place a timetable for withdrawl and pull the bulk of our troops out of combat asap.

To: cnyndwllr who wrote (184507)	4/3/2006 4:47:23 PM
From: geode00	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

The rightwing has taken to blaming Dubya since he's not running and hasn't a coattail left to help them. It's just for show, just for the elections and then they'll resume their ways. Dubya is just the worst symptom of the rightwing infection. Just as the royalists wanted to keep being serfs to the King, there are always those human beings who appreciate being servile. There's a general sheepleness to the human species which refuses to vote, refuses to understand what is going on in the world and accepts 'authority' without question. IMO that's what drives religious and political nutism. The rightwing is amazingly violent, amazingly selfish and totally sociopathic. That it has gotten as far as it has says that the US isn't as strong a country as I thought it was. The US Constitution, the (LOL) rule of law, the yankee independence, the belief in (LOL) justice are pretty weak in the face of the love of money and the love of power to bully others. It's so clear. The things we hold dear are quite fragile.

To: cnyndwllr who wrote (184507)	4/3/2006 4:58:50 PM
From: GPS Info	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 281500

As a disclosure, I lean to the left, but mostly due to a bum knee. I can easily say that I have nothing but respect for Colin Powell. The only fault I once had was with his UN report, but he’s owned up to what he, himself, considered to be an error. Possibly paradoxically, this has elevated him in my view. Also in my view, he tried to serve his country and president to the best that his honor would allow. When I first read these years ago, I picked number 3) to rigorously apply to myself. A quick review may help to civilize the discourse on this board. Then again, maybe this board revels in polarizing issues. My hide has coarsened (and wrinkled) over the years, so feel free… This is my best starting point to find common ground. Colin Powell's rules: 1) It ain't as bad as you think. It will look better in the morning. 2) Get mad, then get over it. 3) Avoid having your ego so close to your position that when your position falls, your ego goes with it. 4) It can be done! 5) Be careful what you choose. You may get it. 6) Don't let adverse facts stand in the way of a good decision. 7) You can't make someone else's choices. You shouldn't let someone else make yours. 8) Check small things. 9) Share credit. 10) Remain calm. Be kind. 11) Have a vision. Be demanding. 12) Don't take counsel of your fears or naysayers. 13) Perpetual optimism is a force multiplier. This is directed at the board, and not an individual.

To: cnyndwllr who wrote (184507)	4/3/2006 6:01:54 PM
From: KLP	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

If you can find any posts where I've said what you said I said, I'd be interested in seeing them. Not that truth matters much to you. I'm disappointed in you canyondweller.... There are posters who post garbage, and accuse others of it. There are posters who post differing opinions....some of the posters actually offer some basis for those different opinions. Some never have a clue ... I've never put you in the latter category, but rather the first. Maybe I was wrong.

To: cnyndwllr who wrote (184507)	4/3/2006 6:29:28 PM
From: SiouxPal	Respond to of 281500

There's the Post 'O The Day IMO.

To: cnyndwllr who wrote (184507)	4/4/2006 4:52:48 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

The posts of the Hawkmoons usually warn that in the face of something they claim is an "end-of-civilization threat" we have to do something, even if it's wrong. Now there you go again.. twisting the facts, and twisting what I'm saying. I've never said that the Islamo-Fascists represent an "end of civilization threat". But I have stated that what we have here is a threat that potentially rivals the rise of Nazism, or at least communism, both of which cost the lives of millions of innocent people before they were snuffed out as a viable ideology. I have little doubt that Islamo-Fascism will ultimately fail as an ideology. But that could be 20-50 years from now and I'm particularly keen on seeing the youth of this country, or even the youth of the Middle East, torn asunder because people LIKE YOU scoffed at the threat when you had in your power to pre-empt it. THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING!! We have the power, the justification (9/11 and other terrorist acts), and the moral authority to advance the cause of democracy and economic modernism as a foil for the VERY SAME EFFORTS by Islamo-Fascists to advance THEIR CAUSE in the Mid-East. Many people, including Winston Churchill, foresaw the threat that the rise of Hitler presented. But close minded and indifferent people with the same mindset you display chose NOT TO CONFRONT HIM. They waited.. They appeased... They attempted to ignore him... They said that it was Europe's problem.. They said we shouldn't be involved. But in the end we COULD NOT AVOID BECOMING INVOLVED. And hundreds of thousands of the cream of American youth had to pay the price. I really don't want to see the same thing happen again just because people like you can't be bothered to recognize that the Islamo-Fascists will no be "wished away"... They have oil (Iran).. And they have the potential capability of upsetting the balance of power in the region by overthrowing the Saudis and Iraq's fledgling democracy (which would give them even more oil). And one only has to look to Chavez in Venezuela, to see what they will do with that power, once they achieve it. They will not need to raise great armies to defend themselves. They need only to threaten to curtail oil shipments. While in the meantime they will fanaticize the muslim population throughout the region and find millions of young martyrs to send in waves to terrorize those nations that seek to oppose them. But in the end, they will be defeated. And if we're required to wait until even people like you have no choice but to admit that we must wage a major war against them, then we'll find ourselves occupying the heartland of Islam, requiring millions of soldiers and TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS in wasted economic production to accomplish it. Millions of Americans and Europeans will find themselves under arms and occupiers of the Muslim world.. And thousands of them will die as a result. All because you couldn't be bothered to face the truth. AGAIN.. THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING!!! Now even you have no excuse for misquoting me again.. Hawk