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Politics : New FADG. -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (825)	5/24/2007 8:55:55 AM
From: michael97123	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 4152

"For example, from the perspective of outrage amongst the American people, we just has 3 soldiers captured, summarily executed, and their bodies thrown into the Euphrates river. But where is the outrage as a nation? " Rightly or wrongly the outrage is with bush. Plus many folks have come to believe that our forces have behaved badly at times as well. And its not only crazies like michael moore who have come to this conclusion. You are supporting a war that is 3-1 unpopular in the US so you get blamed for the deaths of american soldiers as much as a brutal enemy. Every saturday morning it seems i wake up to the death of 8 american soldiers somewhere in iraq and i get angry at the folks who continue this war and cost the lives of our kids. The enemy is the enemy and i can hate them too but I cant control them but i would like to think that with 3-1 against the war, democracy here can get this war stopped. You want democracy in iraq Hawk. What about here?

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (825)	5/24/2007 9:06:38 AM
From: unclewest	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 4152

we just has 3 soldiers captured, summarily executed, and their bodies thrown into the Euphrates river. But where is the outrage as a nation? Last report I have is one of the three was executed. 7 other GIs were killed overnight by roadside bombs . A FN outrageous deployment and use of American troops.

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (825)	5/24/2007 9:15:09 AM
From: unclewest	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 4152

Our IO and IW efforts have been pretty pathetic, IMO. Oh how I agree. The why is obvious. Our PSYOPS and Civil Affairs units have been under constant reorganization for over two years including two major shifts in command structure. What I find particularly pathetic is these units can no longer be tasked to provide direct support to combat deployed SF ODAs. Can there possibly be a better place to practise PSYOPS and Civil Affairs than with the people we are trying to liberate? Given a chance the conventional army seems to enjoy self-inflicted wounds.

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (825)	5/24/2007 12:21:10 PM
From: cnyndwllr	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 4152

"...we just has 3 soldiers captured, summarily executed, and their bodies thrown into the Euphrates river. But where is the outrage as a nation? Outrage as a nation leading to what? An increase in the amount of troops in Iraq? An acceleration of strikes against what? An understanding that they'll do to our soldiers what they're doing to their fellow citizens? Some kind of march to "victory." As a nation fighting the war in Iraq we're like a family watching the house burn. We want to do something but there's nothing we can do but watch. And we ought to have enough sense to stay away from the conflagration. When you tell me how to effectively fight and defeat embedded insurgents from the many factions in Iraq that are willing and able to kill our soldiers directly or through remote controlled booby traps and then disappear into the population, I'll get really outraged and decide if we should do what's necessary to "win" that war. In the meantime I expect that such incidents will continue, I expect that we'll have a difficult or impossible task in attempting to locate, kill or capture those who did such things and I'll expect that in our efforts to retaliate we'll continue to lose more soldiers. That's the reality, the "outrage as a nation" doesn't change that reality. As Michael wrote, I'm outraged at the idea of placing of our soldiers on the other side of the world and giving them an impossible killing and dying mission long after we should have known that their lives were being wasted. That we can control. Ed

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (825)	5/24/2007 1:25:39 PM
From: KonKilo	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 4152

...we just has<sp> 3 soldiers captured, summarily executed, and their bodies thrown into the Euphrates river. But where is the outrage as a nation? While my heart goes out to the families of the slain soldiers, what did you really expect? We invaded THEM on false pretenses and are now an occupying force. Admit it, if the shoe was on the other foot and they were over here, you and I would be doing the same thing and proud of it.

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (825)	5/24/2007 2:07:42 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 4152

"For example, from the perspective of outrage amongst the American people, we just has 3 soldiers captured, summarily executed, and their bodies thrown into the Euphrates river. But where is the outrage as a nation? It sickens me that this has happened Hawk. At some point, however, 'rage' needs to be replaced by thought and consideration that is reflective of our enemy and it's merit. We are fighting terrorists, not a nation. Killing their enemy is a singular battle tactic, there are no prison camps for American soldiers. When they have us they also have nothing to do with us but to execute us. Beheading is more impactful on us than other forms of death. It is ancient and graphic but I don't consider it more brutal than some other options that would be slow and torturous. The bottom line is, if we are enraged we still haven't come to terms with who we are at war with. Let's use our heads and do the job that needs to get done. We are at war with an enemy that will kill or be killed at all events. Stop pussy footing around and kill them. No surrender unless it is complete surrender, including information that could be used to further attacks. Our new motto should be surrender immediately or die. That is far more quarter than they are giving us and much more humane, moral and conscientious than sitting around discussing whether or not to torture them.

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (825)	5/25/2007 2:42:13 AM
From: Nadine Carroll	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 4152

When our soldiers were executed at Malmedy, Belgium, in Dec, 1944, there was national outrage (as well as local retaliation by other American soldiers). It was utilized as an example of the kind of evil that our enemy was capable of perpetrating to strengthen our resolve to defeat them. I don't see that kind of IO effort being exhibited by this administration. Nobody expects civilized behavior out of the Arabs, Hawks. Everybody decries it as 'racism' when you put it like that, but the prevailing multi-culti ethos of claiming every culture is the equal of every other culture, and you can only judge within your own (Western) culture is just racism by another name. There is a complete double standard in place. If Americans put women's panties on a prisoner's head, it's 'torture', but there will be not a drop of outrage in the MSM when our captured GIs are tortured to death or beheaded on video. It's just what they do. For a current example, the Lebanese Army is now shelling the hell out of the Nahr el Bared refugee camp in Tripoli. Nobody knows how many civilians are left in the camp (there were 40,000 a few days ago), or how many dead bodies they will find when they go in. Nobody seems to care too much, either; the world is supporting the Lebanese Army. If those shells were Israeli, the screaming headlines of "MASSACRE AT NAHR EL BARED!" would have circled the globe three times already. But it's just Arabs killing other Arabs, so no big deal.