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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Hoa Hao who wrote (36989)	8/11/2002 10:04:46 AM
From: Elsewhere	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

but why mass produce them if a P-51 can tactically out fight Me-262s? The P-51 was inferior to the Me-262: What made the Me 262 such a force to be reckoned with? The most obvious -- and relevant -- answer lies in it's blinding speed. In 1944-45, the North American P-51 Mustang was among the quickest and most agile performers in the Allied arsenal. In a clean configuration (without drop tanks), it's top speed was in the neighborhood of 440 miles per hour with "everything wide open except the toolbox." By way of contrast, when the Me 262 joined the battle in the skies over Europe, it was capable of passing through a bomber formation at 540 mph with relative ease. This gave it a speed advantage over Allied escort fighters of between 100 and 150 miles per hour, and rendered traditional tactics ineffective. Many U.S. bomber crews began to complain that, when they attempted to track the Me 262 from their defensive positions, the electric gun turrets could not slew fast enough to keep up with the Stormbird. The weapons fitted to the aircraft were no less impressive. The standard Me 262 carried four Mk 108 30mm cannons in the nose, and was later equipped with R4M 50mm rockets mounted on racks under the wings. Both were devastatingly effective against any adversary, and Stormbird pilots ran their scores up quickly against the American bomber formations. It's main weakness was the slow acceleration: The Allies were quick to discover that the jet had an Achilles Heel, and adopted a technique known as "rat catching." The 262 required very long takeoff rolls and landing runs, during which it was defenseless. stormbirds.com

To: Hoa Hao who wrote (36989)	8/11/2002 12:58:08 PM
From: maceng2	Respond to of 281500

You have a remarkable (from my point of view) pro USA "rose colored glasses" view of WW2 that leaves me simply astounded! Much of the subject matter has already been posted and discussed on this thread and others regarding WW2. I will see if I can look up some of it for you. Interested where this goes. One of us is wrong by a very large amount imho. Shermans were at the Battle of El Alamain for a start. I've read a lot about those desert campaigns (amongst much stuff on ww2). No disrespect intended to any veterans on any side.

To: Hoa Hao who wrote (36989)	8/11/2002 3:05:51 PM
From: maceng2	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 281500

Ok we have had this silly "who won ww2" discussions before. It's not who fields the most people and arms but who kills the enemy. A point in question. Look at this site carefully. Even the toughtest German regiments could not believe how tough the Russian fighters were. They fought in primative conditions where most would have just chucked it in. skalman.nu and this page skalman.nu OK, I aplogise up front if this seems to "denigrate the USA". That is/was not my intention. Its just a discussion on the bare facts. It was a bloody awful war, and invasion of Russia would have bought unimaginable extra suffering. That could easily happen again unless the general population realizes how bad it could be. Message 17499482 Now tell me the USA could go up against Russia at the end of WW2 without nuclear weapons. Stalin would have fought to the last Russian tank and the inferiority of the Sherman tank was 10:1 (see prev link). Without any disrespect to the brave heros who stormed up the Normandy beaches re "Saving Private Ryan" film, it was just another day in a terrible brutal war. Most days were like that somewhere every day of the war, and on a much larger scale. USA jets lined up on runways in 1943? What date did the USA fly to Schweinfurt ? Ah yes 17 April 1943 euronet.nl Operation 'Double Strike': First U.S. daylight air raid, with 229 B17's (36 shot down), on Schweinfurt (and Regensburg) in Germany, 320 km; the Americans attempting a daylight raid without fighter escort. Schweinfurt was the location of huge ball-bearing factories that supplied most of the ball-bearings for the entire German military. The second raid on 14 Octobre, 291 B17's now with 60 loses. That would be a contentious political point at the time, no wonder I never heard of that fact. Here is a small selection of earlier WW2 posts with linked conversations. I have included one Russian joke in the series, but you have to find it -g- Message 17545895 Message 17546203 Message 17550203 Message 17072756 siliconinvestor.com Message 16526533 Message 16477383 Message 16547583 Message 16560341 Message 16564792 U boats? How well did the USA torpedoes work for the larger part of the war? geocities.com I agree the USA successfully developed the acoustic homing torpedo that put the finishing touches to the Battle of the Atlantic. history.acusd.edu